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Old 20-12-2013, 12:50   #106
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Re: Why Don't You Want to Sell Your Boat?

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
I thought we were talking about boat condition most recently.....
That's what we WERE talking about.

If you have a contract, and the seller just arbitrarily backs out, well OF COURSE you have some avenues for compensation. If you arrive and the boat is not as pristine as you were led to believe, though, tough luck. You can try to negotiate a lower price, pay what you originally offered, or walk away and write off the time and expense of coming to see it.

And of course, the seller is STILL not "liable for covering your expenses," as Dulcesuenos has claimed. They have to return your deposit. That's it. Nothing more. That's not an "expense." That's your money that was held in escrow by the broker. Indeed, it's the broker who is returning your deposit. The seller is not liable to the buyer for anything at all!

Dulcesuenos, I have a suspicion that English is not your first language, and that this is just a matter of confusing terms. If so, then I hope you don't take my corrections as personal criticism. Nonetheless, if the deal falls through, the seller is not liable to the buyer for anything, and they do not have to cover any of the buyers expenses.

Oh, and, yes, I have seen quite a few sales contracts, in fact. Do I need to ask you the same question?
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Old 20-12-2013, 12:56   #107
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Re: Why Don't You Want to Sell Your Boat?

There are so few really nicely kept and maintained used boats out there. I spent a couple of months shopping this last go around for my 6th boat. I was able to get into Soldboat (the website that brokers around the world post the sold price) and could review the selling prices of a particular design, so I had a reasonable idea of the selling prices. I looked at and made offers on several boats before I found the one we bought, but I was open to purchasing any of the boats we made offers on. I didn't offer 50% of the asking because I was only shopping for a real clean well kept boat and no one gives them away. I offered what I believed was market and a little haggle room.
You have to decide what you want before you begin the process. A charter boat with 10,000 hours on the engine and needing a complete refit or a mint well maintained boat that doesn't need a lot. The problem with many potential buyers are that they read the BS on sites such as this and of course they want a mint boat but only want to pay 50% of the value...unlikely that its going to happen. Do your homework really well before you start calling owners and brokers, know everything you can about the model your interested in and know about the price it should sell for. Most of the folks shopping for boats do more due diligence buying a flat screen TV. I've sold 5 boats, so I know the routine and like others here I can spot a tire kicker a mile away. When I call for information on a boat....the last question I ask is the current asking price!
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Old 20-12-2013, 12:57   #108
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Re: Why Don't You Want to Sell Your Boat?

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Originally Posted by rw58ph View Post
I thought this was, “Why don’t you want to sell your boat?’ Most of the replies have been about buying a boat.

Well, yeah, but buying and selling kind of go together. And if you look at the OP it's really more about, why do you have your boat listed as being for sale when you seem to be doing stuff to keep it from selling?

The reasons that you listed for why someone might not sell? Yeah, all good reasons. But then, for most of them, the owner wouldn't even have the boat advertised for sale, would he?
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Old 20-12-2013, 16:51   #109
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Re: Why Don't You Want to Sell Your Boat?

To the OP’s question, it seems that a lot of owners defer maintenance to the point where the boat’s value drops to well below average. Many of those owners have not put an appreciable number of miles under their keels yet systems have aged, electronics have gone obsolete, rigging has deteriorated, etc. Also, the more their use of the boat and interest in sailing tapers off, the more even basic cleaning and upkeep are neglected. Still, they can’t understand why their “lightly used” boat would be worth so little and end up pricing it accordingly. I suppose brokers accept these listings that won’t show well and aren’t priced realistically in the hope a buyer might eventually come along, but they’re not going to put a lot of effort into photographing them well, writing them up in detail, or showing them to potential buyers. In talking to brokers on our latest boat search, we were told “original owner” or “one owner boat” noted in the listing can be red flags for the type of attitude in the seller I’ve described. We also observed that boats with very low engine hours – unless they had been recently repowered – often had a lot of deferred maintenance issues.

As to buying a boat, I think it’s very important to do independent research on not just the make and model you’re looking at, but the specific boat – especially if you have to travel overnight or longer to see it. Sometimes a boat’s history will be documented on sailing forums, owners’ association forums, or a blog maintained by a PO. All of that can provide useful insight. Calling the dockmaster and/or service manager of the marina where the boat is lying can also reveal a lot. Even if they aren’t willing to disclose much about the boat itself, it’s usually not hard to read into the tone of what they’re saying and to at least get out of them how long the boat has been at the facility. Calling local brokers can also be useful. They should know their local market well and may have information about boats that aren’t listed with them. Obviously they will have their own motivations in mind, but I’ve usually found them willing – at least if they aren’t representing the seller – to speak candidly about a boat if they have information about it and are asked pointedly enough. If you have to travel to see a boat, it’s always great to get a local proxy to do a quick first run on your behalf. When you don’t know anyone local, I’m sure there are sailors on this and other forums who’d be happy to do quick check outs of local boats.
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Old 21-12-2013, 12:35   #110
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Re: Why Don't You Want to Sell Your Boat?

I found a hunter 37 foot sail boat for sail in Rio Dulce, about 20 awesome pictures of interior,outside, at least 13 of the pics where just the galley. I had my husband of whom is a shipwright check into the 30 year old boat, engine leaking oil, damage to the fiberglass in the bilge, no bottom paint in god knows how long, no zincs where ever that goes. hubby said this is the best anchor he has ever seen, $26,000, and you get to take it to sea and sink it, no extra charge! so pictures mean nothing.
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Old 23-12-2013, 13:59   #111
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Re: Why Don't You Want to Sell Your Boat?

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Heres where brokers can be useful. Sign a contract at a price, put a deposit, if seller screws you they are liable for covering your expenses, go see the boat if you like great, survey seatrial then renegotiate if need be or walk away. We did these steps on our boat were selling with no broker. Protects the sellers and buyer. Then use a letter of acceptance if all goes well.
That only works in an ideal world.

Personally I would never put a deposit down on any item until I knew I wanted to buy it.....and for that I need to know it's value to me, and to ascertain that requires knowledge of condition.

Others may prefer the pig in a poke approach .
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Old 23-12-2013, 14:45   #112
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That only works in an ideal world.

Personally I would never put a deposit down on any item until I knew I wanted to buy it.....and for that I need to know it's value to me, and to ascertain that requires knowledge of condition.

Others may prefer the pig in a poke approach .
You take risks no.matter what, more than one poster on here has raised the complaint a boat was sold out from under them and low and behold no contract signed and no deposit," but I spent all this time and money in airfare" and they"promised"" couldn't even show me the boat as they had others scheduled, etc. Thankfully we found our "forever boat" 2 hours away. We had been prepping to fly all over. And in a few cases I wasnt so sold on the boat Id have put a deposit down without seeing it. I would only recc that when you are sure about that type of boat, the rest can be negotiated. You and a few others here have the ability to determine value and condition better than many. Makes your decision a little more easier I would think.
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Old 23-12-2013, 14:59   #113
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From a Broker's listing..........
Day. Made.
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Old 23-12-2013, 15:07   #114
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Re: Why Don't You Want to Sell Your Boat?

I have dealt with several brokers that demanded that I put a deposit down before viewing the vessel in person. I expect it was to limit the tire kickers. I am a bit different than some, I know what I want, and I will know the value before going to look at the vessel. If the condition does not meet my standard, then the price will come down or I walk. If it does meet what I want then I'll buy it. I always make sure before I walk in that I have the financial wherewithal to make a deal. I only deal with certain brokers and that eliminates a lot of the back and forth, they know I am for real when I go after a boat, and I know they aren't trying to sandbag me about the condition ect... So as previously stated, know what you are trying to buy before you start making phone calls.
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Old 23-12-2013, 15:16   #115
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Re: Why Don't You Want to Sell Your Boat?

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
That only works in an ideal world.

Personally I would never put a deposit down on any item until I knew I wanted to buy it.....and for that I need to know it's value to me, and to ascertain that requires knowledge of condition.

Others may prefer the pig in a poke approach .
If you don’t want to put down a deposit that is your right. However, you shouldn’t then be upset if someone else does while you are traveling to see the boat. The “it’s just a business transaction” goes both ways.

Getting an accepted offer subject to the normal contingencies and a personal inspection doesn’t obligate you to buy the boat but it does take it off the market until you decide if you want to. It also ensures that you know what the price will be if the boat checks out.

If you don’t trust your broker enough to put a deposit in his escrow why are you using him/her?
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Old 23-12-2013, 15:29   #116
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Re: Why Don't You Want to Sell Your Boat?

Do you put down a deposit before you inspect a car, house or land?

If not, why do it for an object that typically (ie. generally but not always) sells slower?

We flew across three continents to inspect boats and simply accepted the risk of someone else buying them before we could make an offer. This process bamboozled a few in the USA but was ok in Europe.
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Old 23-12-2013, 15:51   #117
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Re: Why Don't You Want to Sell Your Boat?

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Do you put down a deposit before you inspect a car, house or land?

If not, why do it for an object that typically (ie. generally but not always) sells slower?

We flew across three continents to inspect boats and simply accepted the risk of someone else buying them before we could make an offer. This process bamboozled a few in the USA but was ok in Europe.
As long as you accept that risk then that is a fine system.

Others were complaining about loosing out and then finding fault with the seller.
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Old 23-12-2013, 17:04   #118
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Re: Why Don't You Want to Sell Your Boat?

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Originally Posted by Jimbo485 View Post
Do you put down a deposit before you inspect a car, house or land?

If not, why do it for an object that typically (ie. generally but not always) sells slower?

We flew across three continents to inspect boats and simply accepted the risk of someone else buying them before we could make an offer. This process bamboozled a few in the USA but was ok in Europe.
+1

It is not only paying over a deposit to a stranger that is a puzzle to me - it's signing a contract agreeing to buy the boat before it has been valued by me , let alone viewed .

Of course I accept that in practice a boat purchase contract is usually not worth the paper it is written on - but IMO that only makes the idea of paying a deposit to secure a viewing window all the more bizarre.

But clearly an each to their own thing .
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Old 23-12-2013, 18:34   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo485 View Post
Do you put down a deposit before you inspect a car, house or land?

If not, why do it for an object that typically (ie. generally but not always) sells slower?

We flew across three continents to inspect boats and simply accepted the risk of someone else buying them before we could make an offer. This process bamboozled a few in the USA but was ok in Europe.
Theres alot more houses, cars, etc for sale than there is any one particular brand/ type of boat. In the 4 days we viewed and ddcided about our next boat it was shown 3 times. At thst time there were 4 Leopard 38's on the market, now within 3 weeks later all are under contract.
A little different than buying a chevy impala....
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Old 23-12-2013, 20:06   #120
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Why Don't You Want to Sell Your Boat?

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A little different than buying a chevy impala....

What year Impala? New ones maybe not but a classic might be brokered similar to a boat
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