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Old 23-01-2013, 08:54   #31
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Re: Why don't you want to sell your boat?

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Last week I looked at a bunch of boats with a broker. I emailed him back about one of them.I asked a question for the owner about two things.

He wrote back and told me we had not looked at any boats in that marina/town! I told him all about the boat, and the other three we had seen there.

No recollection, apology, reply with recognition...HUH?

Then he writes for me to make an offer! (Maybe I would, if he answered the questions i asked!
For whatever reason, he's not taking you seriously or he feels like you're wasting his time.

If he sniffs some real money, he'll be kissing your ass and making you a very high priority.

Sounds like he's blowing you off.
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Old 23-01-2013, 08:58   #32
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Re: Why don't you want to sell your boat?

I agree with Mike OReilly. Unqualified buyers are frustrating and sap the energy of sellers or their agents. I do not support the type of non-interaction described by seahag but can certainly understand the underlying feelings by way of which poor service sometimes results.

Avoid this response by asking specific questions in your emails. Present your budget and timeline clearly up front. Respect on your side might engender respect on the other. It might not too.

Like all things in life, these kind of critiques go both ways both in good measure. For me as a broker, it is always motivating to hear this kind of feedback. It reminds me what good service is and that people do care about it. Sometimes you wonder.
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Old 23-01-2013, 09:13   #33
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Re: Why don't you want to sell your boat?

I'm guessing the OP is searching at the bottom end of the market? Regardless, to compare boat ads to home ads is a bit naive. To a true sailor, those pictures of winches are important, as are the pictures of the rigging and the engine. Those shots tell the stories of how the boat was commissioned, and how it's been maintained.

Unlike a perspective home, there may be hundreds of identical models of a boat for sale. Hull #56 of a given boat may be worth tens of thousands of dollars more than Hull #57, precisely because of how it has been rigged, powered and maintained.

That's what all those pictures are about.
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Old 23-01-2013, 13:20   #34
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Re: Why don't you want to sell your boat?

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And now I just ran across a perfect example. This is the one and only photo in this advertisement. They think this is going to help sell the boat!?!

I would say this is the boat that the wife wants sold . Hubby is telling her its on the market .
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Old 23-01-2013, 13:44   #35
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Re: Why don't you want to sell your boat?

So the wife and I are planning on cruising starting sometime in 2017.

Reading this makes me wonder - what does it take to be a boat broker? Seems perhaps if you are good at dealing with people and getting back to them and looking over boats for them that perhaps it could be a way to make some money if you'll be in an area for enough time to make it worthwhile?

Part of our plan is to live for a period of time on the boat in St John, so I thought perhaps this might be a way to make some money?
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Old 23-01-2013, 14:09   #36
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Re: Why don't you want to sell your boat?

Well, boats aren't quite like cars.

People actually have utilitarian uses for a car . . . even if they have two.

A boat is something that one enjoys, if one can afford to enjoy it and has the time. Without the money and the time and the will, the boat is something that just takes, takes, takes. It becomes nothing more than a ball & chain on the leg.

Everything about a boat is costly and money-out. At least a car can actually take a person to work to earn money . . . maybe enough to enjoy the boat.

As far as tire-kickers and non-serious buyers . . . if you take them out of the equation, then you might go for years before you have an excuse to go and see your boat.

At least the tire-kickers and non-serious buyers will be incentive enough to actually check-in on the boat and to see it hasn't fallen off it's jackstands, or that "someone" forgot to close a hatch(last fall).

It's just that a fiberglass boat from the mid-sixties is still a boat, even if it's not maintained. It will not rot away and become part of the soil and it cannot be burned to cook hotdogs.

When you consider all the boats from the mid-sixties to the present that are no longer used maybe you can get an idea of how many boats are either for sale cause the owner wants to sell it, or sitting in disrepair cause the owner can't face "taking a loss".

No matter what anyone says, this IS NOT a seller's market. It most likely, will NEVER be a seller's market(even if the economy improves), until someone comes up with a viable(and profitable), way of getting rid of all the unused fiberglass boats that are sitting around.
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Old 23-01-2013, 14:20   #37
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Re: Why don't you want to sell your boat?

My experience hasn't been as bad. Then again, I haven't actually bought a boat yet. Mostly just looking, and tire kicking. I was going to buy one, but then things changed, and I never did.

I tend to like advertisements with dozens of photos. Mostly I end up looking at "custom" boats, and they typically have very non standard layouts and fittings. The more photos are online, the less I feel compelled to bother the seller. But if I do, then the more specific questions I can ask.

I do prefer it when the photos are organized. Say a few photos on the listing, to get a person interested, and then dozens of photos at another website to get to the fine detail. I even like it when they take photos of the engines, generator sets, radios, windlasses, winches, etc. It's a lovely thing to have a general photo of the radio stack, and then a close up of the SSB and GPS. Then I can see the model number and over all condition of the units easily. It's a wonderful thing to see if the engine is a mound of rust, or a nice shiny clean machine. I really don't think there can be too many photos on an advertisement. Only problem I ever have is when there isn't enough, or something is "skipped".

Everyone has taken the time to respond to my e-mails.

Maybe I'm just lucky? Or is it my tire kicking that causes everyone else to have such a poor time? I usually don't even bother the seller until I've been watching the listing for a few months.
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Old 23-01-2013, 14:29   #38
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Re: Why don't you want to sell your boat?

Our experience was actually similar to ViribusUnitis. And I can see frustration on both ends, although I think sellers probably get more of it.

We were looking for a small boat to sail at home since our big boat is in St Lucia in charter. So we started looking. I connected with a few people expressed interest (and I genuinly was interested) but we never looked as we found other boats that more suited us and over time were thinking of just waiting another year. We then found a boat that seemed pretty perfect and decided to look at it. Owner took us out for a sail and we liked it, but it wasn't perfect (no boat is) and we weren't sure it was for us - we wanted a trailer sailor and raising the mast on this was not something my wife and I could do.

This was also the first boat we looked at so we knew we needed to look at more. I'm sure the seller was disappointed that he took the time to take us out and not have us buy it, but I think that's just part of the process. Season was getting on late, so we were starting to think we'd just wait - as much as I did like that boat. Then one day browsing I came across a boat that looked perfect. Spoke to the seller a few times, my wife and I talked a few times and we were pretty much set to buy it if it was as advertised and pictured. We even drove out for the first look with money to buy it right there and then to save on travel back and forth.

Fortunately for this seller, it was as advertised and exactly what we wanted and we bought it. Key difference was this mast could be rasied and lowered easily by my wife and I, although we're looking at a mooring for 2013.

So, I can see why some sellers/brokers may be less enthusiastic about some requests. It's hard to tell who is serious and who isn't and even those that are serious may not end up being serious in your boat. The boat we bought was double the price of the other boat we looked at, but exactly what we needed vs being something that we could make work - the inside also could have been much cleaner - that's certainly something that can help sell a boat - get it looking as clean as possible.

I can only imagine the number of inquiries some sellers may get that it must get frustrating and I'm sure that tends to impact the responsiveness at times.

As far as pictures - you can only have too many if there are duplicates. Otherwise, the more the better - I'd like to see the entire boat inside and out if possible.
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Old 23-01-2013, 14:38   #39
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Re: Why don't you want to sell your boat?

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Originally Posted by tamicatana View Post
Here's a tip from someone on both sides of the fence:

No amount of pictures or text will tell you the truth about the boat. You must come see it. I learned that as a buyer.

And from the seller's angle: don't waste the seller's time by asking for more pictures of things already pictured. Don't dink me around with questions about things that really aren't important. It's irritating to deal with tire-kickers, which construe most of the responses, so yeah, I wanna sell the boat, but no, I don't wanna deal with buyers who aren't serious. Seriously interested buyers are obvious and get my attention.

Yeah, and what Mike OReilly (below) said.
Well said........I build and sell Camper Trailers. I have worked out I talk to about 30 People and answer 60 emails to make a sale.
Doing this for 12 years now.....If I feel this is a Tyre kicker the email goes in the bin specialty if it has 40 questions.
We sold our 30ft boat and bought a 39ft through a Broker here in Brisbane.
I'm very happy with what I bought and the Broker was ok too.
I told the Broker what I was after and what our budget was and he showed us 3 boats. One of the three we bought.
We are all human and need to be more understanding with each other.It is easy to criticize somebody without looking closer.

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Old 23-01-2013, 15:06   #40
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Re: Why don't you want to sell your boat?

Never sold but when we bought I made an appointment to meet the owner at the boat so we could have a peak inside. Drove one hour one way and he did not show, still to this day has not answered my calls or emails. Turns out we bought a boat in the same marina that we stumbled across while my eyeballs were still bleeding from being stood up. Go figure.
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Old 23-01-2013, 15:31   #41
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Re: Why don't you want to sell your boat?

Until folk have actually had eyeballs on what you are selling none of them can be "serious" buyers - just one form of "tyrekicker" or another. (until you actually kick the tyres no way can you even decide you actually want something, let alone can decide how much it is worth to you).

If selling a boat privately I would simply set up a dedicated e-mail account, for all your new found freinds from Nigeria to carry on using long after you have! (and if you can't screen those out you need a Broker. and possibly a carer!) and with a decent website (with all the details people will want to know - plus the pics!) then will remove the need to answer so many questions (the same ones repeatedly?!) - and for those who can't read, a cut and paste and a link is not rocket science nor time consuming.

Reiner gives some interesting stats to bear in mind.......gonna kiss a lot of frogs!, but that's just business and how it is (boats and everything) - don't take it personally!

and also remember that folks are usually polite and treat someone else's boat as they would their kids (both usually some sort of pride & joy)..........no one says that they think yer kid is ugly and / or a bit thick! it's all smiles and warm words - until out of earshot! Same with boats - a positive viewing (or a few nice e-mails) won't mean what it appears to.
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Old 23-01-2013, 15:41   #42
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Re: Why don't you want to sell your boat?

I'm with seahag, I like pictures and after the first couple I can get an general idea of the "habits" of the P.O.
If you are too lazy to clean up the interior of your boat, clean the leaves off the deck, shine the brightwork etc. to get it ready to sell, you probably aren't going to win any awards for mechanic of the year.
On the other hand repeating the fact you have an electric windlass 5 times in the description tends to dull my eyeballs and desire to look at the boat and I move on.
Living so far from where we are looking, means we don't get a lot of broker responses and while I understand where Mike R is coming from, if I can actually get a broker to answer or call back; I ask all the important questions, then based on the broker's answers, decide if the trip is worth the cost and/or effort.
I can tell you if I see "brown trout" swimming in a toilet, that ends my inquiry.
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Old 23-01-2013, 15:56   #43
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Re: Why don't you want to sell your boat?

We've found communicating with sellers/ brokers pretty hit and miss. Some have replied, others have not. I too am frustrated with the crap pictures and lame descriptions. Ideally I'd like 5 or 6 overviews shots of the exterior and interior toget an overall feel for the looks, layout, and condition of the boat. Then at least 1 pic of each area- head, galley, vee, salon, nav table, etc. same with exterior. And for Gods sakes, put the toilet seat down and cleanup the dirty dishes and piles of dirty clothes on the floor!
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Old 23-01-2013, 16:14   #44
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Re: Why don't you want to sell your boat?

I'm on my eighth cruising sized boat, so I have done a bit of buying and selling, and as everyone has pointed out it isn't an exact science. It is more of an art, for both the buyer and the seller, and let's face it most people are not artists. For example, there are brokers out there who are artists. They know their listings, they know boats in general, they have almost a sixth sense for what you are looking for, and they have a nose for hunting down just the right boat. They are few and far between and worth patronizing if you find one.

Most sellers are not really professionals, not even the brokers. It is a tough way to make a living, and I would guess that most brokers do something else as their real money maker. Individual sellers are mostly not professionals or artists either. They tend to look at selling their boat as a necessary evil they must get through, rather than a process they need to work hard at in order to do it right. Once the decision has been made to sell they have already divorced themselves emotionally from the boat, so ordinary chores like cleaning the cockpit or the head are now burdensome--they just want to get it over with and get the money in the bank.

By the way, I look for the dirty boats with the lousy ads, because there are often gems in the rough there that can be bought at a discount. Buying takes a lot of time. Plan on looking at boats for months. Don't go in with any expectations based on the listing--they are usually dramatically incorrect. One unfinished boat I drove three hours each way to see was not actually the boat design as listed. When I brought this up with the owner he wouldn't back down--insisted it was a different boat than the one he was selling. That's how bad listings can be.
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Old 23-01-2013, 16:57   #45
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Re: Why don't you want to sell your boat?

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Originally Posted by Bash View Post
I'm guessing the OP is searching at the bottom end of the market? Regardless, to compare boat ads to home ads is a bit naive. To a true sailor, those pictures of winches are important, as are the pictures of the rigging and the engine. Those shots tell the stories of how the boat was commissioned, and how it's been maintained.

Unlike a perspective home, there may be hundreds of identical models of a boat for sale. Hull #56 of a given boat may be worth tens of thousands of dollars more than Hull #57, precisely because of how it has been rigged, powered and maintained.

That's what all those pictures are about.
Bash,
The boats I'm looking at are not low end. They cost more than my first house!

I wasn't trying to say that a picture of a winch wasn't a good thing; I just don't need FIVE...or every little nuance; If I got serious after scanning some overall shots, yes, then the details can be important.

Maybe I'm used to more professionalism in general. If I buy something on ebay, even a small thing like a fishing reel, I tend to see really excellent photos, and a very clear description--for a $100 item! Not, say, a $60,000 boat.

To all-My feeling is of frustration; in my businesses, I spend a lot of time communicating, and I get plenty of tire kickers too--but believe me, if I was selling a big ticket item, I would take the courtesy of responding to stinking emails! I can make an email reply in less than a minute. Are these people really that busy, selling boats all day long to correspond?

Anyway, the boat will get bought; in the meantime, I never cry about missing out on paying a lot of money for something just because somebody is too inconsiderate to make it happen.
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