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Old 17-02-2015, 22:09   #16
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Re: Why do Keels fall off and rudders fail?

Gravity (an perhaps whales)
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Old 17-02-2015, 22:25   #17
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Re: Why do Keels fall off and rudders fail?

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Gravity (an perhaps whales)
Yes. Let's outlaw gravity.
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Old 18-02-2015, 00:21   #18
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Re: Why do Keels fall off and rudders fail?

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned inadequate bracing and structural strength of the upper rudder shaft. We have seen a number of incidents of that on CF as well as a sort of recall by one of the manufacturers suggesting the owners brace the shaft tube.
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Old 18-02-2015, 00:48   #19
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Re: Why do Keels fall off and rudders fail?

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Gravity (an perhaps whales)
Yeah, whales that's why the Japaneese are really up to, trying to reduce the risk of collision
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Old 18-02-2015, 10:42   #20
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Re: Why do Keels fall off and rudders fail?

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Given that peoples lives are on the line( being in the water and all) shouldn't builders build the fudge factor into these boats.
Are boats today over engineered to the point they are under engineered.... if that makes any sense? Basically engineered to the edge so much so that any mistake in any of the processes creates failure? if so, why is this being done? no data guessing, can't see that? They know what has worked for hundred of years of sailing....Is it money and cost of materials, the bottom line $$? I can see that.
I think you have nailed it, engineered to the edge to attain a $ mark. I guess it is up to the buyer to know he/she is getting what they are paying for or paying for what they want.
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Old 18-02-2015, 11:52   #21
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Re: Why do Keels fall off and rudders fail?

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Gravity (an perhaps whales)
... and half sunk containers... those are the worst... really ruin the paint job too...
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Old 18-02-2015, 12:00   #22
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Re: Why do Keels fall off and rudders fail?

The real engineering reason production boats can cost less is that they are designed from the start to use efficient construction methods, not because they are using less or lower materials in the construction. This is because they are designed for a higher volume production run when the extra tooling costs can be used to offset labor. One of the more expensive of boat building is building the molds and it makes a big difference if that mold is going to be used for 200 boats instead of 10 boats a year.

The other thing that makes a big difference is the bulk buying of components. Volume builders are going to get a lot better deal than the semi-custom builders.

This whole "crappy design" stuff is just make believe BS.
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Old 18-02-2015, 12:01   #23
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Re: Why do Keels fall off and rudders fail?

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I think that most rudders and keels that "fall off' had owner help somewhere along the way.
Defintitely agree that it is probable in "most" cases prior collision or arguably more important lack of maintenance or inspections. Planes wings dont typically fall off because they are inspected for cracks or corrosion regularly. Keels are just as important as wings but their not regulated to be inspected.

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Old 18-02-2015, 12:03   #24
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Re: Why do Keels fall off and rudders fail?

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Wow. I'm the only one who admits to a rudder/keel failure. I'm honored and humbled to be a "rank amature" among so many who have never experienced a component failure. Could it possibly be because I leave the dock?

"Amature", indeed.

Dave
Dave,

OK, I'll join your exclusive club. Mine came loose all by itself while at the dock, but most on the forum already know it. Former coastal cruiser, not the Oyster.
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Old 18-02-2015, 12:05   #25
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Re: Why do Keels fall off and rudders fail?

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Dave,

OK, I'll join your exclusive club. Mine came loose all by itself while at the dock, but most on the forum already know it. Former coastal cruiser, not the Oyster.
It was loose before you even got it. There was a thread on the Hunter Owners site where the guy posted about it. But I'm sure the original owner told you all about it before hand
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Old 18-02-2015, 12:12   #26
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Re: Why do Keels fall off and rudders fail?

Designers believing numbers they've been given by materials suppliers and who have never been offshore....and not worked on old boats subjected to salt water...?
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Old 18-02-2015, 16:17   #27
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Re: Why do Keels fall off and rudders fail?

Interesting rule that applies to the Single Handed Trans Pac -

8.30. An alternative method of steering the yacht in any sea condition in the event of rudder failure. The Race Committee may require that this method be demonstrated. Skipper's are strongly advised to submit sketches of their proposed alternative method steering to the Race Committee for an advance ruling. http://www.wingo.com/sss/transpac96/tprules.html

Anyone going offshore that ignores maintenance/inspection of standing rigging, rudder, thru-hulls and hoses, and keel bolts is just plain lazy. No Epirb on my boat, so I'm pretty careful.

Ralph
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Old 18-02-2015, 16:23   #28
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Re: Why do Keels fall off and rudders fail?

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Interesting rule that applies to the Single Handed Trans Pac -

8.30. An alternative method of steering the yacht in any sea condition in the event of rudder failure.
Pretty paternalistic. So a second rudder would be OK. Sounds reasonable.

Dave
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Old 18-02-2015, 16:33   #29
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Re: Why do Keels fall off and rudders fail?

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Interesting rule that applies to the Single Handed Trans Pac -

8.30. An alternative method of steering the yacht in any sea condition in the event of rudder failure. The Race Committee may require that this method be demonstrated. Skipper's are strongly advised to submit sketches of their proposed alternative method steering to the Race Committee for an advance ruling. Singlehanded Transpac Rules and Conditions

Anyone going offshore that ignores maintenance/inspection of standing rigging, rudder, thru-hulls and hoses, and keel bolts is just plain lazy. No Epirb on my boat, so I'm pretty careful.

Ralph
Spring for an Epirb. **** happens.
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Old 18-02-2015, 16:52   #30
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Re: Why do Keels fall off and rudders fail?

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Originally Posted by RTB View Post
Interesting rule that applies to the Single Handed Trans Pac -

8.30. An alternative method of steering the yacht in any sea condition in the event of rudder failure. The Race Committee may require that this method be demonstrated. Skipper's are strongly advised to submit sketches of their proposed alternative method steering to the Race Committee for an advance ruling. Singlehanded Transpac Rules and Conditions

Anyone going offshore that ignores maintenance/inspection of standing rigging, rudder, thru-hulls and hoses, and keel bolts is just plain lazy. No Epirb on my boat, so I'm pretty careful.

Ralph
That's a strange comment. A more accurate comment would be, 'so I just take the risk'. Down our way if you go out of sheltered waters you are required to carry an epirb and for good reason.

Re the carrying a second method of steerage, major off shore events down this way such as the Sydney to Hobart require it as well. Even my insurance company requires an alternative. I have a drogue that qualifies as an alternative. But to loose my transum hung elephant of a ladder I think would mean I've lost the boat. I just can't see me loosing it without it causing severe damage as it goes. As in pulling the stern off.
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