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Old 03-02-2011, 13:27   #16
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Originally Posted by RainDog View Post
Good point. It is wise to check you cleats long before a storm. If the marina did not provide adequate cleats with backing plates, put on your own and/or add backing plates. Think I will go check mine now
The backing plates and cleats were fine, it was the wooden dock that failed. They were bolted through 4x4's with approximately 4x12 galvanized backing plates. I saw two of these on the dock I was on. The bolts, cleats, and backing plates were totally intact and still bolted together. They just weren't attached to anything anymore because the 4x4 had broken out. I don't know how big a backing plate would be required to distribute the load on a 4x4 so that it would not break out. The backing plate were simple flat plates so that the only portion of the 4x4 carrying the load was outside of the bolts. I imagine that an L or ] shaped plate that put the load on the back of the 4x4 would have helped. I don't know if anything would help at 180.
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Old 03-02-2011, 13:34   #17
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Cyclone proof moorings...mangroves...

Are you suggesting that a mangrove swamp and some stout rope can guarantee survival against a Cat5 storm with the winds and storm surge of that category?

Or did our Nooze in the US over-hype the intensity of the storm?

In the US, a Cat5 literally is one that remakes the land and sea and cuts new inlets. Mangrove roots, pilings, nothing except a bunker in a deep coal mine is going to be Cat5-proof. And that bunker had better have a damned good storm drain, too.
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Old 03-02-2011, 13:42   #18
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I do feel sorry for the owners ...
... At 180 I imagine if the lines held, they would have broken out every cleat in the Marina. A cat 5 is going to cause catastrophic damage no matter what one does.
Winds of 180 exert twice the force of those of 127; which are, themselves, twice as powerful as those of 90; which are, themselves, twice as powerful as those of 63.
Winds of 63 (Knots, MPH, or just Km/Hr) are very strong, even though only 1/8Th the power of 180 winds.
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Old 03-02-2011, 14:55   #19
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Just heard that a search has started for a guy who went down to the marina in this thread during the cyclone to try and secure his boat. He is now missing. As aweful as it is to see the pile of ruined boats, it is tragic that someone may have lost their life trying to save their boat. No boat is worth a life.
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Old 03-02-2011, 15:07   #20
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Anyone have info about how those aboard, tied up in the mangroves did? Can't imagine doing that myself in a Cat 5....
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Old 03-02-2011, 15:10   #21
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todays pics of marina

One man is missing trying to save his boat and head for the mangroves,lets hope its just an out of range issue
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Old 03-02-2011, 15:23   #22
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Cyclone proof moorings...mangroves...

Are you suggesting that a mangrove swamp and some stout rope can guarantee survival against a Cat5 storm with the winds and storm surge of that category?

Or did our Nooze in the US over-hype the intensity of the storm?

In the US, a Cat5 literally is one that remakes the land and sea and cuts new inlets. Mangrove roots, pilings, nothing except a bunker in a deep coal mine is going to be Cat5-proof. And that bunker had better have a damned good storm drain, too.
I don't know about mangroves over in the US, but tropical Queensland mangroves are bigger than the US Redwood forests and the sandflies as big as turkey buzzards . Kidding.

I think that your question is a good one, hellosailor. I don't think the average mangrove area is a suitable place to try and hide from a cat 5 storm. For example, one mangrove creek I know has strong tall mangroves and little rain catchment so some protection and little chance of flash flood. However, the area is basically flat across a treed and grassed sandy spit to the ocean so nothing substantial to stop high winds. Add a storm surge of say 3 metres and a boat hidden away at low water would be bobbing on a massive lake with waves rolling straight in from the ocean. The spit would be under water and so would most of the mangroves. Not a safe place at all.

On the other hand, places like Hinchinbrook, geologicaly they are drowned mountain ranges and so some of the mangrove channels there are tucked in behind serious mountains and there are steep drops down to the water. This means there are spots where there is more chance of getting tucked in away from the worst winds and more opportunity of being able to slacken the lines and move up as the storm surge comes in. There is still no guarantee of survival but not quite as bad as it may seem.
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Old 03-02-2011, 15:25   #23
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Anyone have info about how those aboard, tied up in the mangroves did? Can't imagine doing that myself in a Cat 5....
I know some people who were up one during Cyclone Larry, which was Cat 4 and hit Innisfail 45 miles to the north.

They said they hardly felt anything as Hichenbrook is so very tall
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Old 03-02-2011, 15:30   #24
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Thanks, I'm seeing the geography is a bit different than I expected. Still, I bet it was a long night!
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Old 03-02-2011, 15:42   #25
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I feel bad about all the boats, i lost a boat here in halifax during hurricane jaun. Lets all hope the man missing will be found safe!!!!
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Old 03-02-2011, 17:06   #26
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Cyclone proof moorings...mangroves...

Are you suggesting that a mangrove swamp and some stout rope can guarantee survival against a Cat5 storm with the winds and storm surge of that category?

Or did our Nooze in the US over-hype the intensity of the storm?

In the US, a Cat5 literally is one that remakes the land and sea and cuts new inlets. Mangrove roots, pilings, nothing except a bunker in a deep coal mine is going to be Cat5-proof. And that bunker had better have a damned good storm drain, too.
Totally agree the best/only place to be in a cat 5 is out of the dangerous quadrant however if you cann't best you can do is secure you vessel in mangroves and get off to safety.

In the great sheltered mangroves at hinchenbrook starting immediately adjacent to the marina is a very large well protected mangrove area. look at google earth. The tide and sea would have risen but there would have been no surge.

From seeing photos from damage in Cariabean marinas and observed Airlie Beach and Mackay and Hamilton marinas they can handle up to cat 3 but the mangroves would offer better odds in winds above that.

Our cyclone warning system and tracking over the last couple of years have been brilliant and given plenty of warning.

I heard one professional skipper who was intending to put his vessel in a mangrove creek at Hinchenbrook that can hold 30 vessels safely found the creek blocked by one early vessell tied off blocking the entrance.

There are other places but that one was close to the exit.
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Old 03-02-2011, 17:10   #27
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There is no such thing as a Cat 5 hurricane proof marina. Either the pilings get overtopped by 20' surge or the pilings simply pull over. I saw the remnants of part of Skull Creek Marina in Hilton Head a few months after a Cat 3 or so hurricane came through. The pilings were bent over at enough of an angle for the docks to float free.

And in a Cat 5 if the pilings don't bend and the surge doesn't overtop them, then the cleats will pull out or your doubled up docklines will break, no matter how stout they are.

David
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Old 03-02-2011, 17:28   #28
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There is no such thing as a Cat 5 hurricane proof marina. Either the pilings get overtopped by 20' surge or the pilings simply pull over. I saw the remnants of part of Skull Creek Marina in Hilton Head a few months after a Cat 3 or so hurricane came through. The pilings were bent over at enough of an angle for the docks to float free.

And in a Cat 5 if the pilings don't bend and the surge doesn't overtop them, then the cleats will pull out or your doubled up docklines will break, no matter how stout they are.

David
Absolutely Only absolute is out of the area of influence or take your chances with the boat in mangroves and you off vessel in safe area.
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Old 03-02-2011, 18:00   #29
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in nandi fiji in the boat yard,their answer to cyclones was to use a back hoe to dig holes,line with old car tyres and sit vessels in the holes!!!!!!

and not leave the boat in the water over cyclone season?
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Old 03-02-2011, 18:06   #30
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in nandi fiji in the boat yard,their answer to cyclones was to use a back hoe to dig holes,line with old car tyres and sit vessels in the holes!!!!!!

and not leave the boat in the water over cyclone season?
Whilst a practical soultion enviromental issues in most areas would preclude this.
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