Who's short a boat (and brians)

[Chris R]

http://photos.sfsurvey.com/

Check out the pics to the left.

I am sure someone on this forum is missing their boat!

[Chris R]

Sorry the pics on the right. The upper left hand corner starts the gallery.

[cyclepro]

Chris, those pictures and story were already covered in previous threads
Jan

Well Chris, I had not seen these pictures before, so thanks for sharing. As for your "enlightened remarks", I am sure you have very little understanding of what it takes to actually sail a boat. It appears that there was no outboard, and an inboard is very unlikely on this small a boat. This particular spot, I happen to be very familiar with. Tidal currents of 3kts (That is knots Chris) or more is common for this location. Westerly winds of 25 to 35 kts are common for this location. The possibility that this boat was in trouble long before they got into the surf is likely.
But, maybe I am misjudging you Chris, so what would you have done differently? You have my undivided attention.

[swagman]

Kai Nui once whispered in the wind:
Well Chris, I had not seen these pictures before, so thanks for sharing. As for your "enlightened remarks", I am sure you have very little understanding of what it takes to actually sail a boat. It appears that there was no outboard, and an inboard is very unlikely on this small a boat. This particular spot, I happen to be very familiar with. Tidal currents of 3kts (That is knots Chris) or more is common for this location. Westerly winds of 25 to 35 kts are common for this location. The possibility that this boat was in trouble long before they got into the surf is likely.
But, maybe I am misjudging you Chris, so what would you have done differently? You have my undivided attention.

Do not bite on this response Chris and despite most who use forums seeing this before - most will appreciate you posting any sailing news.

But I was surprised to read the above response as it seems designed to halt such input................

It's sad if that's the case.

JOHN

[capt lar]

I have not seen these photos. What was the thread name for past discussion. I would like to know the specifics. I can see sails, tiller, rudder and keel ( jeez - that's scary) seemed to be intact. I suspect error in judgement. Not a forgiving spot to make a mistake. We ALL make mistakes. Some can cost you the boat or worse.

capt lar

[nolatom]

Okay, I'll bite, though a rookie on this board and absolutely unfamiliar with that area of the Bay as well as the facts other than looking at the photos, not with the prior thread. The first photo looks like a well-trimmed boat, with the jib out to leeward on a whisker pole, and no obvious sign of panic or attempt to change course. Don't know why he's in this area (see a surfer's head in the water) as it appears there's lots of searoom to windward. This looks to me like the last chance to head up, take the building sea astern on the beam before it crests any higher, and have a chance of getting out of there. The only physical thing I see to prevent this is the whisker pole, which would back the jib and give you trouble while trying to head up. So I wonder if they had any idea what they were getting into or what was coming up astern.

I stand to be corrected by anyone who knows more about this.

[Chris R]

Only a fool would ever take a boat, sail or power between the shore and the South tower of the Golden Gate Bridge. It is always a nasty place. If he got there on a 3kts (thats knots everyone) of tidal current, he should of been more aware of the area.
There I bit!!!!

Did anyone notice what color his MOB pole was painted.

[cyclepro]

http://cruisersforum.com/showthread....ghlight=Golden

If this doesn't work: search this forum for Golden and check the message title: small boat in surf

Jan

[capt lar]

Thanks Jan. Seems it goes under the heading of "hard earned experience". We have had plenty of Forum debates over gaining experience vs. being too conservative. I think this story speaks to the need for balance between the two. Sounds like crewman Bob has slipped a little to the right. Happily, they made it. The part about being fouled in the rigging brings back some bad memories for me. Hairy stuff.

capt lar

[Lodesman]

Have to say I side with Chris on this one, so I’d like to take a stab at answering “what I would have done differently.”

They say a picture is worth 1000 words, so with 118 pictures there’s a whole lot being said. Of course it could be taken out of context; that’s where we have to use some deductive reasoning. First we can look at the photographer’s comments:

‘I was at Fort Point [April 2nd 2005], finishing up an eleven part photo essay on the surfers of San Francisco, and then I saw this sailboat, I said to the crowd, "LOOK, this sailboat is going to surf the wave!"’

OK, why is this plainly obvious to the photographer standing on the beach, but not to the guys in the sailboat? Why have these fellows chosen to run between the Bridge’s foundation pier and the shore (a gap that’s maybe a couple hundred yards wide) when there’s a wide-open, deep, half-mile wide channel on the other side of the pier? That’s what the two boats in the background of picture 1 are doing; one is a sailboat running on a parallel course to our hapless subject. Other than these two and a boardsailer, there doesn’t appear to be any other traffic under the bridge.

Now I admit that I don’t know San Francisco that well, and don’t have a harbour chart handy, but I would have to assume the chart indicates overfalls in that area – it is btw in the coastal pilot, which is available online. Of course, one really doesn’t need a book, when it should be readily apparent that “surf’s up!” Why else would there be a bunch of surfers in the water? I don’t know anything about surfing, but I can reasonably assume they don’t hang around in 5 degree water on the odd chance that a wave is going to come along.

Of course, the story leading up to this series of photos hasn’t been told, but since it appears this boat is running wing-on-wing at the outset, I would tend to assume it was their intention to run through the shoal channel, which given the obvious conditions, was absolutely moronic. As they say “a superior sailor is one who uses his superior judgment to avoid situations that might require the use of his superior skills.” (source unknown – paraphrased from a pilots’ saying)

Am I being too judgmental? Possibly – I don’t have all the facts. Is there someone out there with first or second-hand knowledge of this incident? I’d like to hear the story behind this, if there is one. Maybe Kai can tell us if and why he would do things the way these guys did it?

I’m glad to see they apparently made it out alive; minus one boat, but so much the wiser. Of course, they can only be nominated for an honourable-mention at the Darwin Awards.

Kevin

[BC Mike]

This story has been well discussed. Even one of the people on the boat has provided input. Simply: they made a mistake.
Most folks have little experience in waves. Talk to an X surfer for input. I used to surf. Most folks have very little knowledge of what to do going out in waves, or comming in with waves, or even describing waves. Even guys like Marchaj in his book has trouble with waves. An unbroken wave is energy moving, we pick up a bit of speed because we are aiming down. A broken wave is real water moving and has a lot of force. A boat that will not exceed its hull speed without tripping on its nose is going to have a problem. The photos prove these points.
Michael

OK, maybe I took your initial remarks wrong Chris, and if that is the case I sincerely apologize. Since I appear to be the only one who got the impression that your remark implied someone that dumb had to come from this forum, I am obviously in error, so again, I apologize.
As for the location, I drove by there today. You get a great view norht bound right past the 19th st exit. It was flat calm, however, the marker is probably 500 yards out from where the boat was. I think the guess that the boat was taking a short cut is a fair guess, and someone who has made that route on a day like today, may easily have not anticipated the surf until it was too late. Changing your mind and trying to beat out of that situation once you are commited with a flood tide, and high winds behind you could be a bigger gamble than trying to surf through it. Since the buoys in the bay are deep water channels, and set up primarily for commercial ships, it is not necessarily unsafe to run outside the channel, but not without local knowledge. Not sure what really happened here, but the bottom line is the guy lost his boat, and that sucks.

[Starbuck]

I viewed the photos and read the story over six months ago, so my memory may be a bit rusty, but I'll guess there wasn't a chart being used in a situation that certainly called for one.

If that's the case, it's a lesson for us all.

Since Cyclepro was kind enough to add the link to the previous thread, I read through. It does not sound like a chart would have made a difference. The skipper took a calculated risk, and was wrong. In the bay, if you do not like the conditions, just wait a minute and they will change. As I said, today, he could have sailed through with no problem. The depth is more than sufficent for a Santana 22, and from what his crew mate said, they could not see the severity of the waves until they were in it. It is very common for boats to take this path, and it can be an interesting sail. IF, nothing goes wrong. This time. everything went wrong.
The alternative could have been much worse. Had they tried to turn and beat back out of it, they may very well have been driven into the bridge, or broached. I have had a similar experience, but on a much smaller scale. I was sailing my 8' dinghy in the harbor, and was hoping to sail under the bridge, and up the slough. As I got to the basin, I was assessing if I could make it under the bridge or not. It was very close. I decided not to try it, but by that time, the current had me, and the poor little cat rig just couldn't point out of it. I sailed back and forth about 6' off the bridge for 15 minutes before I finally got pushed under. The bridge was about 6" too low. I swamped the boat, and was able to get under, more or less afloat. Fortunately, there was no surf, and I was able to get to the beach, and refloat the boat. (it was too far under to bail.) Sometimes you just can't turn back. We all have differnt comfort levels. I tend to sail very conservatively, but am often critisized for not having my engine running when I sal into the harbor, and even for sailing my wood boat without an engine, yet I never sail as close to the beach in Santa Cruz, as allot of the locals do. I am sure the skipper of that Santana was very comfortable with that path based on his previous experience. If the unexpected never happened, boats would not sink.