Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 21-09-2011, 15:01   #16
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

Quote:
Originally Posted by bangkaboat View Post
Suppose you're taking a road trip & take turns driving your car. If your buddy has a license & is seemingly competent & sober, when he/she is driving, they are responsible for their actions. So, I'd suggest that the determining factor is if the helmsperson would be considered competent to navigate without supervision. Still, I agree with Steve, only to point of deductable &, on the sea, the senior officer on watch is ultimately responsible, so without knowing the specifics, that sounds like the owner/skipper, in this case. If the owner doesn't want to use his insurance, tough tacos!
It's the skipper's boat and he's silly if he doesn't pay attention to what's going on while someone else is at the helm.
__________________

__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2011, 15:09   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Alameda, CA
Boat: C&C Newport 41
Posts: 586
Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

legality aside, i am surprised and hope some will elaborate on their opinions on where responsibilities lies in the event the owner is not on the vessel.

if i borrow a friends vessel (or car) and crash it (any action that results in damage) i believe i am responsible for repair said damage and return the vessel in the same condition as when i left the slip.

i guess in this example i am the skipper and, as previously mentioned, am responsible. sure, if i am in a borrowed vessel and crash into another boat. that boat owner will not sue me but sue the owner of the boat i am borrowing. in most states, there are insurance distinctions between owner & operator and many states have statutes that enable the owner to sue me (the operator).

i also find it interesting how quickly we assume that the individual at the wheel was under qualified. even the most experienced of captains can have an accident (they do call them accidents for a reason after all).

i would exclude 'hardware' damage from 'operator responsibility' in my above statement. a rudder falling off a vessel is NOT the responsibility of the person borrowing the boat (unless their actions resulted in said missing rudder).

can some of you who stated it is the owner's responsibility 'no matter what' clarify or elaborate.

while it sounds like the owner int he original post is both wrong and out of line, this is an interesting discussion topic on legal, ethical and etiquette levels.

-steve
__________________

__________________
ssanzone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2011, 15:10   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Boat: Nassau 42 SV Ceol Mor
Posts: 789
Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

Skipper
__________________
S/V Ceol Mor
42 Nassau Undergoing refit in Kemah, Tx
Our little blog has moved: www.theceolmors.blogspot.com
Mimsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2011, 15:10   #19
Registered User
 
Multihull's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 158
Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

Thats 16 to nil. Not scientific substantiated but in my opinion the collective knowledge of this forum suggests that the skipper/owner should be educated.

So, you can board any vessel without discussing potential damage costs.
__________________
Multihull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2011, 15:15   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 11
Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

I appreciate everyone's responses and am not surprised by the general agreement that is found through out the responses.

Don asked if the skipper had suggested that the crew pay and the answer is an unequivocal yes. In fact the skipper expected the person on the helm to whip out their check book and pay for all the damages and take all responsibility for the accident.

M
__________________
mtembene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2011, 15:19   #21
Registered User
 
Multihull's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 158
Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

I presume the skipper has less friends then before the accident.
What an ....
__________________
Multihull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2011, 15:26   #22
Senior Cruiser
 
bstreep's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX/Port Aransas, TX
Boat: 1990 Macintosh 47, "Merlin"
Posts: 2,274
Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

You could make this 100 to none. You are getting answers from boat owners, and even THEY agree it's the skipper's responsibility.
__________________
Bill Streep
San Antonio/Port Aransas, TX
bstreep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2011, 15:27   #23
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,772
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtembene View Post
I appreciate everyone's responses and am not surprised by the general agreement that is found through out the responses.

Don asked if the skipper had suggested that the crew pay and the answer is an unequivocal yes. In fact the skipper expected the person on the helm to whip out their check book and pay for all the damages and take all responsibility for the accident.

M

........wow............

if skipper/owner is on boat--is not borrowed, and heis responsible for it all. he abdicated his position at helm, an dis still responsible for boat, is his boat and others were following his orders.
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2011, 15:33   #24
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

Quote:
Originally Posted by bstreep View Post
You could make this 100 to none. You are getting answers from boat owners, and even THEY agree it's the skipper's responsibility.

As skipper, I paid for the damages to someone's outboard motor when his dinghy, being towed by my boat, was hit and flipped by another boat. The skipper is the skipper.

You'd think the guy who hit the dinghy (as well as my boat) would be liable, but life can be funny that way. Sometimes people manage to squirm out of their responsibilities.
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2011, 15:41   #25
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,319
Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtembene View Post

Don asked if the skipper had suggested that the crew pay and the answer is an unequivocal yes. In fact the skipper expected the person on the helm to whip out their check book and pay for all the damages and take all responsibility for the accident.

M
I say the skipper/owner, who was in the cockpit on the boat, is just an idiot!

And we're talking a log here that the helmsman may not even have seen. I've hit a few logs out in the open, who would have expected them as normally don't see it until after the bump againist the hull? Not like the helmsman drove the boat up onto a rocky island etc. (still the skippers problem)

Sounds like you and your friends wouldn't sail on this boat again.
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2011, 15:47   #26
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

I do not think it is the skipper. They may be responsible but who pays is the owner. Later they can sue the skipper perhaps.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2011, 15:53   #27
Vendor
 
witzgall's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Boat: Camper Nicholson 44 Ketch
Posts: 1,775
Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

The Owner. Did this owner think otherwise?

Chris
__________________
witzgall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2011, 15:58   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 11
Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

It is true that I don't expect to crew on this fellows boat again. It is also true that the other crew member and myself have agreed to pay for some of the damages that were incurred. While we don't have to do this I believe that assisting with the cost of the repairs is a good thing to do.

M
__________________
mtembene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2011, 16:04   #29
Registered User
 
Don1500's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: On Board, just above the water
Boat: Marine Trader 47
Posts: 1,176
Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

The skipper of the Exxon Valdize was off watch, drunk, and asleep when she ran aground, he was still personally responsible as the owners representative. The ultimate responsibility for the damage rested with the owner (Exxon inc.), who wasn't even there. There is no question the helmsmen and the watch officer were competent but the watch officer held the direct blame (as opposed to responsibility), the helmsman had no blame as he was doing what the watch officer instructed him to do.

The same for the OPs example. The guest helmsman had to be doing what the watch officer (the owner/skipper in this case) told him to do, "Sail over there." The skipper was negligent for not maintaining a set look-out. The OP said the skipper saw the log just before it hit, a set look-out could have spotted it soon enough to prevent it from hitting.

So in this case the watch officer, skipper, and owner were the same person. That person receives the blame and the responsibility.
__________________
The Nomad Blog Mother, mother ocean, I have heard you call
Everything I know about cruising I learned from Travis McGee - http://theroamingnomad.com
Don1500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-09-2011, 16:06   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 43 & S2 6.9
Posts: 963
Re: Who Pays when Accidents Happen

Agree with the rest - the skipper/owner is responsible. Helping certainly isn't a bad move, but not required.

Even when we charter and I'm the Captain, I wouldn't EXPECT anyone else to pitch in if their was damage and we needed to pay for it. I certainly would appreciate it, but wouldn't expect.
__________________

__________________
maytrix is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
This May Happen if No Chafing Gear Is Used Leventdelamort Off Topic Forum 4 02-09-2011 13:04
The Things We Do to Make it Happen Target9000 Dollars & Cents 4 04-08-2011 19:54
Can We Make it Happen ? wlboyer Meets & Greets 11 16-07-2011 04:06



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:19.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.