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Old 16-08-2009, 12:46   #106
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They are looking for a place to lay their eggs.

That has got to be the funniest thing I have heard in weeks!
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Old 16-08-2009, 15:08   #107
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Having been out there for some time and also being born "non-conformist" I can somewhat sympathize with the "loss" of the "counter culture". In the ancient days of the eastern US, it was centered around Coconut Grove in Miami. Then all the "regular folk" started visiting and thought "how wonderful, strange and exotic, we ought to live here." The rest is history. From Miami they went to the Bahamas and when run out of there by the masses of "semi-regular folk" moved further down island to T&C and finally Luperon, D.R. Which is probably the "last stand" of the "weird and wonderful" characters right out of Jimmy Buffets songs.
Down island similar things have happened. "Regular folk" looking for some excitement find the "counter culture", buy up the place and wonder what happened to the "charm." There is a little pocket still in Coral Bay, USVI, but even they are getting crowded out. St Croix was a hide out and now it is in a building boom and the "weird and wonderful" have to continue migrating south.
In global terms, we are "out of date" and the modern world has grown past us just as it did the "Impressionist Painters" in Paris. Technology has enabled "normal folk" to venture into our former haunts bringing their "comforts" and expectations with them. I suspect old time backpackers of the world have the same complaints - no wilderness left anywhere.
There are pockets still in the So America but geo-politics and drugs makes those areas a bit too risky even for the non-conformists. So we find small secluded anchorages and are currently being driven from them by overpopulated islands with youngsters needing all the trendy, fad do-hickeys and buy them using our money "liberated" from our boats and wallets. So we must meld back into the "herd" of main-streamers as a matter of survival. Sad in some ways, but still on your own boat there is still some privacy that is not available to folk living on land. Unfortunately, time only moves forward and staying out ahead is getting harder and harder and more dangerous. One obvious result is that all the island countries are shutting down immigration to only a few "desirable" individuals. Paradise is full! Very little is left for us "undesirables."
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Old 16-08-2009, 22:20   #108
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I reckon that every generation has it's own curltural and counter-cultural icons - these being subtly or not so subtly different from those of the preceding generations. The cool places / things become uncool and new places / things become cool. There has always been "haves", "have-nots" and "have-some-but-not-lots" with varying degrees of resentment, mistrust and misunderstanding. Younger generations will generally resent the wealth and materials of the elder, Elder generations will shake their heads at the younger's lack of respect / care / forethought or politeness. All this is pretty much to be expected. Ask any old-timer and they will be able to tell you about how you used to be able to go to place "X" and do cool thing "Y" before all the young or rich or yuppy or tourist or <insert group of choice here> came in and did "Z" and ruined it all. Thing is, if you asked the generation preceding that old timer, it would have been that old timer and his ilk who came in and ruined it for them. You probably ruined it (whatever "it" was) for the generation preceding you and you are having it ruined by the generation following you... and so it goes on.
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Old 17-08-2009, 01:31   #109
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I am trying to figure out what culture I fit into. I think I am an accepted member of a few but I really don't like some of the roles I play.

And I am now really confused as to how smart I am, thanks to Gord (again!), because sometimes I think I am am and sometimes I think I am not. This makes me wonder where on the graph I am.

I would like to know.......................I think..............not really sure.................................dang.
Me too Therapy!

So after reading all the confusion coming from “The secret life of DPMatty” (Just kidding Walter)…. I thought it would be good for all of us to try and better define “Culture”

I found 2 promising Definitions:

Anthropology: the sum total of ways of living built up by a group of human beings and transmitted from one generation to another.

Biology:
a. the cultivation of microorganisms, as bacteria, or of tissues, for scientific study, medicinal use, etc.
b. the product or growth resulting from such cultivation.

Still confused Therapy, but I now believe that “Time” plays a big part in the development and our analysis of any culture (counter or otherwise).

Also that it is an evolution based on the actual influences of what the test subject.., experienced to date.

So I can easily conclude that counter-culture is very much subjective and easily misunderstood.

DPMatty, …Hi and welcome…but just one small observation that I hope helps.

Real sailors hate to be pigeon holed….(we are after all drifters by choice) so while this post is mostly tongue in cheek, tread lightly with your generalities and instead approach with specifics.
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Old 17-08-2009, 04:39   #110
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I reckon that every generation has it's own curltural and counter-cultural icons - these being subtly or not so subtly different from those of the preceding generations...
... Ask any old-timer and they will be able to tell you about how you used to be able to go to place "X" and do cool thing "Y" before all the young or rich or yuppy or tourist or <insert group of choice here> came in and did "Z" and ruined it all. Thing is, if you asked the generation preceding that old timer, it would have been that old timer and his ilk who came in and ruined it for them. You probably ruined it (whatever "it" was) for the generation preceding you and you are having it ruined by the generation following you... and so it goes on.
Anyone reading the adventures of earlier cruisers, such as Electa and Irving Johnson, Miles and Beryl Smeeton, Bernard Moitessier, Eric and Susan Hiscock, and Earl Hinze, will get the impression that theirs is the last generation to get a small taste of how it was.

Over 2,400 years ago, Socrates observed that: “Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannize their teachers.”
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Old 17-08-2009, 05:56   #111
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And my step dad once said to us, ......you bloody kids think you invented everything, but your wrong cos me and your mum were there first.Life is a right of passage evolution. Henry Winkler said it best.By the time I realised my dad was right, I already had a kid who thought I was wrong.One morning about 18 years ago on the way to work I was listening to BBC radio 1 and it was total crap so I changed stations and later that night wrote in my diary. Today I knew I had moved into the next generation cos I no longer understand the kids music.
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Old 17-08-2009, 07:45   #112
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The cruising counter-culture is still out there, just not as visible or possibly, in the location you'd think.

I was a boat owning member for much of the 1990s in the Caribbean. I found great comradery, whit, intellect, and like minded folks wherever I went. Sometimes I heard them on the VHF, other times at the pot lucks, sundowners, and stores. I still look at the boat cards I collected and smile at the memories.

I returned to the unreal world in 2000 to work on the big white boats as captain. If we have a few days off, I settle into my favorite cruising attire, turn the watch over to the mate or first officer, and go out for a few hours and get my attitude readjusted (ego deflated). I have learned the hard way that getting taken to the beach BBQ in a big expensive tender isn't a good way to start the conversations. Especially if the tender driver is all tricked out in yachtie wear!

As anchorages and location have developed, many of those who sought out the quiet, unpretentious, friendly locations to spend some time, have decided that that anchorage they've heard about from other cruisers sounds pretty good.

Fortunately, many of my white boat associates haven't found these locations, or the boats are too big to anchor there, so there's hope for even me.

I will be joining the cruising counter-culture (which may be a repetition) in the next 2 years and this time, I'm not going to swallow the anchor. And while the Virgin Islands and St. Martin/Barths will get my anchor dirty, I'm looking for the real world in a quieter, less stressful location.

Personally, I'm keeping my mouth shut about the great places I hear and read about on sites like this. Having tasted the counter-culture, I want more. It can never be like it was, but it's still better than being stuck on the other 30% of the planet.
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Old 17-08-2009, 07:49   #113
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First off; DPMatty: Great thread - And I understand your pain. Impressively, this is the first time I have seen 4 of the heavies (mods) weigh in with their opinions. To attract the interest of what must be some very jaded people is an achievement.

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Can one still get away and find adventure or must a new cruising ground be pursued? Are there really any left? The questions are sort of rhetorical, but not entirely...

I wish I had been born to a time of wooden ships and no electronic navigation...
It would seem you have found your adventurous cruising grounds right here on this forum. With all the aplomb of Joshua Slocum, you have had to fend off the Feugan pirates and brigands who have attempted to hijack your thread.

OK, ok so its merely a virtual cyber world. And indeed, this reinforces my contention that the definition of an adventure is all in the mind. Apart from very few notable exceptions, one man's swash buckling adventure, is another's mundane daily task to eke out an existence. Only you can define what an adventure means to you.

(My adventure last week was repairing the heads - it required no less courage and fortitude than swimming across a Crocodile infested river and along the way I discovered some life changing truths about myself.).
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Old 17-08-2009, 08:45   #114
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( you in this reply is the genral you, not directed to anyone as an individual)
I dont know that ther ever was a ":cruising counter culture"... for millenia people have travelled by boats for pleasure, some had more .. ( fill in the blank) some had less.
If you want remote, it is still easy to find, there will always be places that are empty of people/ boats whatever, even in Florida there are small keys that are remote and desolate.
THe advent of electronics has had very little do with how many people sail off into the sunset, Columbus and Magellan if they were sailing today would be in a fast big power boat using all that modern tech could provide, just as they did then.
If you lived in London in the 15th century you would bemoan the amount of traffic on the Thames, and thinking that it was all getting a bit crowded with the wealthy landlords etc... nothing changes.
I would venture to suggest that when you go off sailing ti will be in a fibreglass vessel with GPS, comfortable berths, perhaps a SSB, etc....
by some standards this would make you part of the Nouveau Riche that you decry....
THere will laways be folks who are smug, who cannot read and write, who you find your self uncomfortable with, etc, we should not want to shoot them ! or hit them, you dont have to associate yourself with them at all if you so choose..... or you can learn to be more tolerant and understanding that we are all different, and enjoy all the diiferences...
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Old 17-08-2009, 08:56   #115
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How much does the cult or polularity of pirate films, Robinson Crusoe/castaway, etc tap into our dreams or desires to sail to original unspoiled places and discover new things for the first time or to simply 'have an adventure'? Are the high seas the last places left for this to happen. I guess you could say there are a lot of Indiana Jones fantasist wannabees who dream of exploring the caves and jungles looking for hidden danger and treasure but in reality there is too much red tape and government control and the budget required might run to millions.But, adventures at sea are still there to be had. Once your off shore, your beyond the beurocracy, beyond the population and can travel to secret places that dont yet have an airport and where nature is still king.That keeps it rather exclusive, even in this over populated planet.
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Old 17-08-2009, 19:52   #116
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- - I think there isn't any real definition to "counter culture" as has been suggested in the above posts. "Culture" is, I think, the attributes of a large group that makes that group distinctive from other groups. As the "culture" matures, some members will try to "rebel" or redefine the "culture" and take it in a different direction. They would be the "counter-culture." Under that system, "counter-culture" is a fluid concept that has existed since the first human settled down to agriculture 6000 years ago.
- - Some counter-cultures are positive improvements (mine, of course) and some are destructive and do not progress the world (everybody's else's). Just kidding. The early settlers to this country were "counter culture". Then they matured into "the culture" and the protesters and "green revolution" folks because the counter culture. It is a slippery slope.
- - In my early sailing days small groups would gather in out of the way anchorages just to get away from the "mainstream" and reacquaint themselves with nature and life. We would frolic in the water, bare-butt naked and sit around a play music and commune with nature. That was a fun time for my generation - then they "paved over paradise" as the song went. And the funny part was that we are the "they." Jimmy Buffet said is very well in "I am the people my parents warned me about."
- - It is all so much fun until ugly reality sets in with marriage, kids, house, taxes, and PTA meetings. Then many years later something magical happens - the kids grow up and leave, we sell the house, buy a boat (a comfortable boat) and sail off into the sunset. I firmly believe that full time cruisers (single-handers and couples) are now the "counter-culture" and it is alive and thriving - just a bit different from when we were in our twenty-somethings. We have our creature comforts installed in our boats, we have state of the art communications to maintain contact with the kids who are now the "culture" but we have regained our rebel minds (tempered by reality) and live free!
- - In the eastern islands and the out of the way other islands it is amazing how many naked grandmothers and naked grandfathers are prancing around deserted sandspits and hidden swimming beaches. We listen to jazz and hold impromptu blues jams and all the other things we would not even dream of doing when we were part of the mainstream culture.
- - So don't lose heart, you get a chance to be part of the "counter-culture" twice in each lifetime. And it is a glorious way to finish out your days on this planet. Free, Free at last, again, except for the heart pills, pain pills and visits to the skin doctors, etc. As others have aptly said, youth and happiness is in your head and so long as you can mentally regain your youth, you are definitely back in the "counter-culture." And I firmly believe only on cruising yachts can you re-enter again because we can "get away" from the mainstream and stay away for significant periods of time.
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Old 18-08-2009, 14:55   #117
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Lets fill in the blank: If you want to avoid these irritants and their toys, cruise to places that don't have a...BLANK.
Blank= warm water.
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Old 18-08-2009, 15:12   #118
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Prancing butt naked on a desert island sounds great, back to my youth in the 70s.Harley Davidson enjoyed a massive rise in sales in this country a few years ago when a lot of guys in professional jobs reached that mid life crisis age 45+ and bought a bike to try and capture their youth.
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Old 18-08-2009, 19:06   #119
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OK,here it comes,I have enjoyed all 8 pages of this thread,and I have been around (started in the north sea in the forties I was only five my bunk close to the single cylinder diesel on the family fishing boat , cried like a baby when I had to hammer ice off rigging and deck when I was eight,and I laughed when I found Bermuda before loran) I'll be 70 soon and I am not off old money or nuveau rich. but I love the water I love the people on the water. Oh let me clarify warm, clear water, and considerate people, just 2years ago when anchored in a secluded place one of those white yacht tenders with twin engines came ideling to my boat the owner told his captain to cut the engine as he wanted to ask me where the wreck in this bay was located .I told him, and said we would be on the beach for sundowners later,with regret in his eyes he declined saying he had to move his white yacht to a safe harbor before nightfall, I could see the sadness in his eyes I was sad too. I like good conversations and sundowners , and have been known to stay in an anchorage with good people,for many days good people is the person who tells me he has a problem and must run his generator but has anchored as far away as possible.IF THE POSTERS ON THIS THREAD WERE ON THE BEACH TOGETHER I WOULD BE THERE FOR A LONG TIME, Oh I forgot to wait 12 hours before posting. Ole
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Old 18-08-2009, 20:26   #120
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Like Olepedersen, I too have waited long before posting to this thread ..and even now dont know if I should...Please Take this with all the humbleness I can possibal convey through a key board....but I only have one question for the OP.

"Is there peace and love in your heart enough to enjoy the culture you desire if you stumbled upon it and I was there? "
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