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Old 29-07-2009, 07:46   #61
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Hey, whats all this badmouthing of "nouveau riche"? I am desperately hoping to be nouveau riche since being "old money" is already out of the question. Meanwhile, I think I will sail south ....
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Old 29-07-2009, 09:03   #62
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Three years ago, I was all set up to retire at the end of this year, purchase a nice house where I wanted to live, and purchase a 40+ft cat as a means of getting there.

Now I will never be able to afford a house, and the boat will have to be smaller and older.


Not sure what group or culture I belong to (don't really care either).

I do know what caused the difference
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Divorce

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Old 29-07-2009, 09:06   #63
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Talbot,

Sometimes it's worth the price...been there, and done that....ouch......i2f
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Old 29-07-2009, 09:53   #64
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New technologies have made it easier for people to get on the water, made it more comfortable when we are on the boat, made it easier to navigate, made it easier to dock, made it easier to keep in touch, made it easier to do just about anything we ever wanted on the water. Many of us revel in this new technology and what it allows us to do. I personally decided early on that fun stuff for me included being comfortable thus I prepared my boat for comfort even though many 'real sailors' scoffed at my eagerness for electricity and for air conditioning. Sorry I hate sleeping all sweaty and such.

Those that do not wish to partake of new technolgy are allowed to not partake as they wish. They should not however be so presumptuous to dictate that the use of new technology makes other people less capable in some aspect though.

I have always had a hard time suppressing my urge to tell the 'real sailors' that regardless what they incorrectly believe, it does not take any knowledge of sailing to own and cruise on a sailboat. It does not make you a better boater although you may be more competent in some areas.

I think what makes me a better boater is that when the 'real sailor' is done complaining about new technology and those that use it I am still more than happy to provide him or her ice for their libation and steaks from my freezer and the next morning I eagerly throw them a line to help them off the sandbar they wound up on.

I like to think my little part is sharing technology with 'real sailors' and them sharing sailing tips with me. Have a nice day

Pat
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Old 29-07-2009, 16:38   #65
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Originally Posted by gtmopat1 View Post
it does not take any knowledge of sailing to own and cruise on a sailboat. It does not make you a better boater although you may be more competent in some areas.
Care to elaborate? I'm not getting this one...
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Old 29-07-2009, 18:32   #66
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It bears remmbering that half of us are below average (intelligence/knowlege, competence, wealth/income, etc).
... but less than 15% of us think that we are below average!
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Old 29-07-2009, 18:48   #67
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Oops. I really must stop posting before I get to the end of a thread, then finding out it is a big debate.

But IMHO, and where I sail, there are still lots of really interesting people out there. Including people who have travelled across oceans in bathtubs (to plagiarise what a Dutchman said about my crossing the English channel in a 16' dingy). Technology made it easier and safer for everyone to sail, but there are still great places to sail.

May just have to travel a bit further to find the affordable dream.
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Old 30-07-2009, 05:59   #68
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technology made it more comfortable for my wife to be on a boat. if she didnt want to go I wouldnt go at all most of the time. i am willing to camp out to be on a boat. she isnt. happy wife = happy life.
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Old 30-07-2009, 07:15   #69
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... but less than 15% of us think that we are below average!
The Kruger-Dunning “Illusory Superiority” Effect

People tend to hold overly favorable views of their abilities in many social and intellectual domains. The authors of "Unskilled and Unaware of It" (below) suggest that this overestimation occurs, in part, because people who are unskilled in these domains suffer a dual burden:
- Not only do these people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices,
- but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it.

Across 4 studies, the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile on tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd. Several analyses linked this miscalibration to deficits in metacognitive skill, or the capacity to distinguish accuracy from error.

Paradoxically, improving the skills of participants, and thus increasing their metacognitive competence, helped them recognize the limitations of their abilities

Unskilled and Unaware of It:
How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments
by Justin Kruger and David Dunning


http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf

“... Although our emphasis has been on the miscalibration of in-competent individuals, along the way we discovered that highly competent individuals also show some systematic bias in their self appraisals. Across the four sets of studies, participants in the top
quartile tended to underestimate their ability and test performance relative to their peers ...

... One puzzling aspect of our results is how the incompetent fail, through life experience, to learn that they are unskilled..."
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Old 30-07-2009, 07:20   #70
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The Kruger-Dunning “Illusory Superiority” Effect
ROTFLMAO ........not sure why tho' ...............oh
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Old 30-07-2009, 07:25   #71
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... One puzzling aspect of our results is how the incompetent fail, through life experience, to learn that they are unskilled...
There are those that don't know; And those that know they don't know; The real danger is with those that don't know they don't know...No?

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Amen!!!
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Old 30-07-2009, 07:58   #72
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My point was we have our opinions on sailing or cruising but in the basic form a sailboat is a just a boat. if you never raise the sails you can still own and cruise on a sailboat. It doesn't make you wrong it is just how you boat. We all have skillsets and operate at different skill levels because we all have different backgrounds and experience which results in an accumulation of skills, biases, and opinions about every facet of boating, which is fine. But in the end a sailboat is a boat and although you may never raise the sails you might be able to navigate around a marina and dock boats with your eyes closed because that is what floats your boat. The other guy is seldom seen in a marina and lives on the hook but cannot put his boat in a slip if his life depended on it. Both are capable boaters just with different skills.

IMO in general boaters are much more accepting of other boaters as long as those other boaters respect the culture and social mores of the locality. We get the chance to meet and sometimes travel with others outside our normal 4 degrees of separation. As other stated we meet travellers from all over the world travelling in a variety of craft, with a differeing levels of technology, and if we are adventurous enough there are still places we can go on our boats where people and boats are few and far between.

We should all feel free to go forth and conquer in whatever boat we feel comfortable in and be accepting of those, like me, who leaves the dock with 2 levels of redundency for every system and a lust for electricity to run all my comfort sustainment requirements. I am always willing to share some ice and air conditioning though so feel free to pull up and say hello.
Pat
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Old 30-07-2009, 08:34   #73
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Whats with the hostility towards people with money?

It bothers me when wealthy people get stereotyped as being like Thurston Howell III on Gilligans Island. I know a number of seriously wealthy people who are the nicest people you could ever meet...and then there are the snobs who think they are better than you because they have more money than you. No, the wealthy don't have long hair, smoke dope, rarely bathe and wear Grateful Dead T-shirts, but they certainly do not fit the stereotype from the first post. (See, I can inaccurately stereotype the counter-culture as well.)

Its best to get to know people personally before you slap a label on them.
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Old 30-07-2009, 08:42   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talbot View Post
Three years ago, I was all set up to retire at the end of this year, purchase a nice house where I wanted to live, and purchase a 40+ft cat as a means of getting there.

Now I will never be able to afford a house, and the boat will have to be smaller and older.


Not sure what group or culture I belong to (don't really care either).

I do know what caused the difference

>
Divorce

Divorce is sorta like being shipwrecked.... if it does not kill you it makes you stronger.... after a couple you would be suppressed how strong you can feel

Just think how you would feel with out the divorce living in the planed house and boat.... happy as you are now or less? Probably happier now I hope!:cubalibre
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Old 30-07-2009, 08:43   #75
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The Kruger-Dunning “Illusory Superiority” Effect

People tend to hold overly favorable views of their abilities in many social and intellectual domains.
and this is BEFORE the addition of alcohol!
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