Where Has the Cruising Counter-Culture Gone - Is It Too Late?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by atoll

chai common name for tea in swahili,through out east africa and indian ocean.
cardamon cinnamon and ginger added for digestive properties there too.
probably introduced by omani slave traders.
on another note found a great site for global weather and tides.
Newlyn, England , United Kingdom Weather and Wave Forecast - Tide-Forecast.com

Shukria Khan Sahib... chai bhoth acha hai
Qhudah Hafaiz

[atoll]

y'allah shukram,habibi Nahosa

[schoonerdog]

I didn't read all of this, but the first few posts made me smile. When we bought our first cruising boat I was 25. We were cruising when I was 28 and we came upon (quite by chance) the couple who used to own our boat. A fabulous old couple who had sailed around the world in their day on a home built boat and a shoe string budget.

They remarked that they were happy to see a young couple on their former boat. I'll never forget the look in his sea blue eyes as he said...
"That's the problem with young people today, they're too soft, too worried about "stuff". Cruising nowawdays is dull. It's all old farts like us and nobody drinks enough anymore."



(schoonerdog's wife - Cindy)

[Stillraining]

Well shoot send that bloke on over, Ill dispell that notion

[atoll]

dont ya love it when a plan comes together,4 time zones,6 parties,one boat,three oceans,aaaargh livin it, lovin it,paradise can be stressful as well.......................36 minutes ago clearhawaii- brisbane here we go/come

[surfmachine]

Pblais, wise words man! People are soooooooooo judgmental ? You gotta have hope and actually try and make your dreams come true, it actually happens! Either you miss the starting gun and spin your wheels and go nowhere, or you actually have a plan and run with it and wow! In 10 years time it has mostly worked out! "Leave the whiners home", I will run with that for the future!!

[atoll]

definitions of sailing:
all ways expect the un-expected,whilst standing in a shower tearing up 100 dollar notes,bear this in mind,and any thing is possible in the world of long distance deliveries!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and hope the owner has long arms and shallow pockets......cash= speed of mobility in this day and age

[hydrogonian]

I didn't read all of this either. But I believe that I can comment. There is a huge fundamental flaw with the OPs approach to other people. Its the flaw that trips up the "counter-culture" more than any other, and is the primary reason why I don't look the part of a counter culture individual anymore. At one time, I very much did. I dressed the part to fit in with the tribe. I've been to several Rainbow Gatherings.

The "counter culture" is a response to societies social hierarchy and judgment of individuals based upon higher class education, material ownership of goods and wealth. For all but a very few individuals, joining the counter culture isn't because they have money bit reject the status that comes with it, but a knee jerk reaction to societies treatment of them based on their humble origins. So far, these are a legitimate and understandable reasons for the existence of the counter culture.

Heres the problem:

Although the counter culture was formed, essentially, to escape the irrational status requirements and judgment criteria of society, most individuals turn around and choose to implement a similar system of social status and judgment, however based upon different criteria.

Instead of wealth and status being the criteria, its how well a person can look the part, how well they can speak the language, and to what extent they participate in the social behavior of the tribe (vegetarianism, drug use, simple living, political action, the correct political beliefs, the avoidance of behavior that they would consider too mainstream, the correct taste in music, etc...).

Instead of living the life of what should be the de-facto standard of a true and open hearted non-judgmental counter culture individual, they instead create their own little social hierarchy and system. The vast majority of counter culture individuals are very judgmental of others, heavily based upon their looks and perceived status in the counter-culture.

Idiots.

I realized that this was toxic behavior that serves to do nothing but alienate the rest of society from them, including a lot of very good and smart individuals, and now I am a part of no tribe. I except people as they come, and try not to judge until I meet or know someone, no matter the size of their boat, their dietary preferences, their substance abuse preferences, etc..

Counter culture individuals should be aware that if they are implementing their own system of class and judgment, then they haven't yet escaped the box.

They've just created a new box in which they enjoy a higher status.

The only people that I am usually initially suspicious of are those that have a die-hard belief in religion, but thats another discussion...and I'm open to them nonetheless.

[Whimsy]

Originally Posted by DPMatty

Oh I'm a snob (or reverse snob) in many areas and feel most people are simply a waste of resources, myself included, but perhaps a bit less so than others (and more so than some others).

Sounds like pretty severe case of self-loathing combined with and/or leading to what a shrink would call projection.

Originally Posted by DPMatty

I live in New England and I've watched most of the harbors fill up with moorings and boats that never get used. So now, instead of being able to anchor, which should be our collective right, you have to pay for a mooring so the town can make money mostly because a bunch of asshats bought boats that they never use, presumably for status symbols.

Just to see if I understand: If you buy a boat and keep it in the harbor, that's OK. But if someone else does the same, but uses the boat less than you, that makes them an "asshat." So, by your own 'reasoning' here, that makes YOU an "asshat" and a status-seeker if you keep your boat in the harbor and use it less than another guy uses his? Or does your double-standard prevent this from being true? I always thought that its good have a standard, but that having a double-standard is NOT twice as good (or even half as good)...

Originally Posted by DPMatty

Now in reading these boards and others I find the yuppies have taken to the sea... I know they've always been there a bit, but not like it appears today

Let me guess. A "yuppie" is anyone who is successful at a professional career, likes to keep his boat, car, home and person to a certain high standard of appearance (that leaves ME out...), and has a fulfilling life outside of living on his boat, and so then uses his boat less than you and usually takes shorter cruises than you? Please clarify...

Originally Posted by DPMatty

Old money (who I... have no problem with) never did that. It is the nouveau riche for whom I feel disdain...

Originally Posted by DPMatty

The old money had a sense of responsibility, almost nobility...

And someone else said: <<<<6) the surge in numbers also as a result of technological changes (comms, nav, watermakers).>>>>

Arrgghh! What allowed the great unwashed masses of pitiful and bothersome wannabes to clutter the TRUE mariner's world? Watermakers and GPS units as techno-enablers are just poots in the wind! The REAL problem all began with the invention of accurate chronometers allowing any mundane, humdrum nouveau-well-to-do schlub to know his longitude.

Now, just any old clever, hardworking, nouveau-self-made (and therefore over-privileged) presumptuous upstart who can afford a chronometer with all his filthy-but-hard-earned lucre, can go out and cruise the world in an ostentatious ship, a ship he (gasp!) didn’t even inherit from family or marry into, and know when to stop sailing to avoid falling off the edge of the earth!

And cruise these ignoble self-made swine do, by the paradise-clogging droves. These damned uppity yups can't be REAL adventurers because they don't even keep their beef in brine, their rum in wooden casks and their weevil-ridden biscuits in canvas bags like proper mariners, but, get this, arrogantly provision with canned food, red wine in bottles and sometimes even bake their bread as they go!

The OP astutely asserts that "old-money" folks are, for the most part and especially by comparison to the nouveau-prosperous, both responsible and noble.

The part I'm confused about is how this most rarefied and noble state is obtained. Perhaps an analysis of the evolution of "old money" would bring illumination to my poor and benighted state.

So, it starts generations back, often with a poor guy from a working-class family who is clever, hardworking, smart-working, organized, truly responsible and maybe also either fortunate or skillful in timing, who's considerable efforts and endeavors help him earn enough money to become very wealthy over his lifetime.

Now, not to put to fine a point on it, and really as an aside, I can’t help but observe at this juncture that he is then, to the "old money" of THAT particular era, nouveau-riche and certainly not yet quite acceptable in certain elitist social circles... No, by definition, earning your own disqualifies one from being called "old money" - it has to handed to you by inheritance or marriage. Yes, as DPMatty sez, so noble, so responsible.

Anyway, then his heirs inherit his wealth and have to do little for themselves - I'm starting to see the origin of this responsibility and nobility. These early generations (or "nouveau-old-money", if you will) completely avoid having to endure any of those character-destroying hardships, like being frugal by necessity, like having to work both hard and smart or be poor, like learning to form priorities, like having to make tough, real-life choices and compromises, and that most ignoble trait of the irresponsible lower classes and/or nouveau-riche: truly and fully appreciating what one has worked so hard to earn and build for one's self and one's family.

And so it goes, the character and nobility thus increasing with each generation until, well, one attains the status of "old-enough-money" to have "earned" the respect of the likes of the OP.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Whimsy

And so it goes, the character and nobility thus increasing with each generation until, well, one attains the status of "old-enough-money" to have "earned" the respect of the likes of the OP.

Nice rant

So, I guess what you are saying is.............you bought your own furniture?

(to borrow from Alan Clark - professional bounder (old school ) and former cabinet minister )

[Mariness]

I'm with you Whimsy.
Those "unused" boats - they weren't bought by people with an evil plan. Do you envision Dr. Evil sitting in his lair, "I know! I'll buy a boat and moor it out but never use it and then other people won't be able to park there!" Of course not - they bought it because (like so many of us) they wanted their own piece of the boating life. Then "life intervened" and they couldn't get out as much as they like. Or how about this: Maybe their work schedule is different from yours, and they are on the boat EVERY SINGLE CHANCE they have - it just never lines up with the days you use yours. If weekend sailors judged me on how often they saw me on the water, I'd be in trouble as I work all Saturday and Sunday.

Why do people think you necessarily have a right to free anchorage anyway? Just because you have had something before, doesn't mean you automatically have a right to it forever. Comes across an awful lot like the "entitlement mentality" that is more commonly leveled at young people.

It's a big world; isn't there enough room in it for all kinds of boaters (and all kinds of their boats)? If it's a 100-year-old wood boat, or Beneteau, or SeaRay, or the Jetski that makes them happy, great - almost all of us could do with more happiness!

[mintyspilot]

Originally Posted by Mariness

... Those "unused" boats - they weren't bought by people with an evil plan. Do you envision Dr. Evil sitting in his lair, "I know! I'll buy a boat and moor it out but never use it and then other people won't be able to park there!"....

Suppose they own a long-haired white cat and have a monocle? Particularly if their boat is called "Number One" or "Spectre"

[captain58sailin]

Or are called "Doctor Evil".

[Ex-Calif]

I am totally against old money.

I threw all my old money away and have started collecting new money.

For anyone against new money, please send me any that you have...

[Blue Crab]

Boys, this is just stupid. Pardon my unsubscription.