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Old 28-07-2009, 07:33   #16
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I'm with Ex-Cal and Gord on this one - does anyone else think there is some sort of reverse snobbery at play here? If one starts with the attitude that anyone who owns an expensive boat, or who has been successful in life ashore is a 'jerk' and not a real sailor, then I imagine that they are going to be unhappy no matter where they sail.

I purchased a used boat because, like so many of us, I have other irons in the fire - ones that require the additional capital that would have been needed in order to purchase my 'dream' boat. Does it bother me that in so many harbours today, a 15 year-old, 40 foot cat, however well maintained or equipped, is at virtually the bottom end in terms of both size and status? Not one bit. Am I envious of boats that are bigger, newer, prettier and more expensive? No, because I am unashamed of where my life and my resources and my choices have led me.

Do I believe that people should be required to go through a series of boats and a trial by ordeal before being allowed to purchase the boat of their dreams? No, although they may have been the better for it. Do I find that the owners and crew of these dream machines are biased against me, or against others with even more modest boats than my own? No. In fact, I find that when cruisers get together, the real status comes from having experience and knowledge, rather than the best tool. From having been there and done that.

So for those experienced old salts who sail smaller, older vessels that they maintain themselves, take heart. You will get much more respect for your displays of seamanship (and your ability to repair the things aboard that break on all boats), than you would have from being able to buy a bigger boat.

Brad
Oh I'm a snob (or reverse snob) in many areas and feel most people are simply a waste of resources, myself included, but perhaps a bit less so than others (and more so than some others).

The die yuppie scum part was said tongue in cheek. I don't care if people have money. I applaud their success. My point is larger...

I live in New England and I've watched most of the harbors fill up with moorings and boats that never get used. So now, instead of being able to anchor, which should be our collective right, you have to pay for a mooring so the town can make money mostly because a bunch of asshats bought boats that they never use, presumably for status symbols. Old money (who I was raised with and have no problem with) never did that. It is the nouveau riche for whom I feel disdain, not for what they can afford, but for how they behave. That is one group. The list of those for whom I have no desire to be around is long...

A few here seem to understand what I'm talking about, perhaps that's enough.

Like Thoreau I want to get away to live deliberately...

And to surf.

Perhaps I should go back to Nicaragua. I understand it's much cooler there now than in the late 80s and the surfing is outstanding.
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Old 28-07-2009, 07:40   #17
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It bears remmbering that half of us are below average (intelligence/knowlege, competence, wealth/income, etc).
IME it's the 25% that are just really really dumb that drag down the average. That's why I stopped voting for them.
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Old 28-07-2009, 07:41   #18
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....A few here seem to understand what I'm talking about, perhaps that's enough....
It was always thus......
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Old 28-07-2009, 07:48   #19
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It is the nouveau riche for whom I feel disdain, not for what they can afford, but for how they behave.
Aye! Seems some people were never taught how to behave, at least with respect to how their actions affect other people. It's a me, me, me world out there.
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Old 28-07-2009, 07:57   #20
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The days of the small engineless sailboat with the corrugated iron Bimini and the happy little kiddies living on deck in a tent appears all but over. The obscenely large super payouts and the advent of GPS spelt the end of an era. Everyone is now "getting away from it all" and flocking to high density marinas and rally style events.

There is however a very small niche for those pursuing the simple life, the uncrowded anchorages and the adventure. Obviously a forum is not the place to discuss this but one certainly has to work a lot harder and play their cards close to their chest so to speak. Its not hard to work out the folk that still enjoy this lifestyle, generally their the ones with a hard dingy that is sweet to row.
Thank you for you post. I was starting to feel like Ingrid Bergman in Gaslight...
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Old 28-07-2009, 08:02   #21
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DPMatty asks "where has the cruising counter culture gone?"


Perhaps they came ashore, applied themselves, made a load of money, and are out there cruising in Oysters. And maybe complaining that it's too crowded.
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Old 28-07-2009, 08:36   #22
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You need hope and fewer excuses to find real adventure. It helps a lot if you leave the whiners home.
Truer words were never said. I found this to be the primary factor that separates what in my mind are the "true" cruisers from the rest. Not their economic status, how new or fancy the boat, or where they happen to be.

When the proverbial stuff hits the fan, which every now and then it will, all the whiners can think about is themselves and how smelly it is for them. The cruisers jump into action and get things done, whether it be for themselves or someone else.

It really is about attitude.

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Old 28-07-2009, 09:46   #23
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DPMatty, I guess it depends upon what you mean by the 'counter-culture'. For a generation in the late 60's, early 70's, what was referred to as the 'counter-culture' became virtually the norm. In that sense, it was the young people who were ambitious and hard-working who were counter the culture of their generation.

For others who didn't start out that way (including it seems yourself), familly and other 'responsibilities' eventually took precedence. People got married, got jobs, started businesses and families, paid mortgages etc.,etc. And while their lives at that point could hardly be considered part of a 'counter-culture', they surely entered that sphere as soon as they decided to leave the security of their homes, support network and careers in order to go cruising.

So I guess my question is, what is the counter-culture you are looking for? You say your point "has nothing to do with how expensive someone's boat is". Fine. You also say that it has nothing to do with being high-tech ("surfing and hippie counter-culture also have computers"). Ditto. But what, pray tell, does it have to do with?

You bemoan the fact that "in reading these boards I find the yuppies have taken to the sea"? And what on these boards has led to that conclusion? Is it all of the threads concerning issues such as 'how to appear fashionable at sea'? Perhaps it is the call for 'designer-label sails'? I am certain it must have something to do with the absence of threads here that concern practical issues. Or is it really, despite your denial, because of the expensive, high-tech vessels that are owned, or aspired to by so many ("I wish I had been born to a time of wooden ships and no electronic navigation").

If you don't want (or can't afford) a large, high-tech boat to go cruising, that's fine. But I think Ex-Cal said it perfectly: " Don't judge - just unplug and get out there."

Brad
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Old 28-07-2009, 09:58   #24
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loathed?

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I loved that. I came back started a business which I've been running almost by accident and dealing with people who I have loathed for twenty years.
While you were out, loathing your clients, we convened a meeting of the cruising counterculture and decided to replace ourselves with a cocktail circuit. We did this as a result of discovering that the counterculture wasn't so much in favor of anything as it was pretty much just about being against everything. Indeed, it wasn't even a true counterculture, just something of a contraryculture, given to making trite statements like "most people are just a waste of resources."

Those of us who were able to weather the transition have found the new cruising cocktail circuit (ccc) to be quite fun, because we no longer spend so much time loathing humanity as we do celebrating it. Regardless, every once in a while ccc members romanticize about the good old days before GPS or roller furling, and we have a therapy session for those members, reminding them what it was like to have nothing but beans in the larder and to always have to move their bowels in buckets. Usually, these ccc members are able to extricate themselves from what we call "the grand funk" by shaving, showering, cutting their hair, and learning how to make the perfect gin and tonic.
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Old 28-07-2009, 10:08   #25
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the new cruising cocktail circuit (ccc)


For me "Counter Culture" means............old folks
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Old 28-07-2009, 10:16   #26
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While you were out, loathing your clients, we convened a meeting of the cruising counterculture and decided to replace ourselves with a cocktail circuit. We did this as a result of discovering that the counterculture wasn't so much in favor of anything as it was pretty much just about being against everything. Indeed, it wasn't even a true counterculture, just something of a contraryculture, given to making trite statements like "most people are just a waste of resources."

Those of us who were able to weather the transition have found the new cruising cocktail circuit (ccc) to be quite fun, because we no longer spend so much time loathing humanity as we do celebrating it. Regardless, every once in a while ccc members romanticize about the good old days before GPS or roller furling, and we have a therapy session for those members, reminding them what it was like to have nothing but beans in the larder and to always have to move their bowels in buckets. Usually, these ccc members are able to extricate themselves from what we call "the grand funk" by shaving, showering, cutting their hair, and learning how to make the perfect gin and tonic.
I'd rather be trite than vapid...

But your point is taken.
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Old 28-07-2009, 10:18   #27
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Its very simple, really!
Your enjoyment of the cruising lifestyle will depend on your personal attitude, and the choices you make. Rather than starting your adventure being judgemental about others, approach this mergng of lifesyles and different cultures with a sense of anticipation and wonderment. After cruising for nine years I've come to realize that it's the people you meet that will be your greatest memories.
Enjoy the independence of this lifestyle. If you're not happy where you're at, pick up your anchor and go somewhere else, because you're the one that's unhappy. Everyone else is having a great time.
You and the world have changed in the last 20 years, and will continue to do so.
John
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Old 28-07-2009, 10:28   #28
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Its very simple, really!
Your enjoyment of the cruising lifestyle will depend on your personal attitude, and the choices you make. Rather than starting your adventure being judgemental about others, approach this mergng of lifesyles and different cultures with a sense of anticipation and wonderment. After cruising for nine years I've come to realize that it's the people you meet that will be your greatest memories.
Enjoy the independence of this lifestyle. If you're not happy where you're at, pick up your anchor and go somewhere else, because you're the one that's unhappy. Everyone else is having a great time.
You and the world have changed in the last 20 years, and will continue to do so.
John
No worries. I appreciate the responses.
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Old 28-07-2009, 10:34   #29
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Isn't Counter Culture the guy in a bar with his elbows and often his chin on the bar counter by his empty beer bottles?

Everyone has a different view of what is and is not cruising.

We even have different views on what "use to be", what the "good old days" were.

In reality only one things counts and that is the future and what you are going to do or not do. Whine is never as good as wine.

Most people, including cruisers have certain likes and dislikes that may not be what most people feel is "proper" or the way it should be or the way is use to be.

I personally don't like the charter cats running generators all night in my tucked away anchorage or someone anchoring on my stern rail but I'll bet in the distant past sailors probably had other annoyances that appeared at the time to be very similar.

Even in the BVI and USVI, I still know of several anchorages where what I call real cruisers hang out for months if not perinatal. One thing appears to bond them together is the feeling of having freedom of movement. We know it really isn't real but it is a very real feeling you can get being on a boat able to pick up anchor and move to a total different cove, island or nation. Not a lot different from "ye olden days". It is all just what is your mind set and how you want to look at the half glass of wine.
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Old 28-07-2009, 10:57   #30
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DPMatty, while I may take issue with your disdain for the 'nouveau riche' versus old money (and your ability to speak of living in the counter-culture when you were raised with and have no problem with the latter), I admire the fact that you have good naturedly hung in despite a mulititude of attacks. Good on ya and good luck in finding your own notion of paradise.

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