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Old 10-12-2009, 22:41   #196
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Originally Posted by lostsoul View Post
Yeah well jerry left on my 35th birthday-then again nixon resigned on my 14th.
I got on a motorcycle in 82 at age 22 and saw the country for a year. I came back home and told people about this sub culture of people with motor homes (mostly retired) I was camping in the rain and snow and they were all comfy. Many of them made me breakfast and said we dont get many young people traveling. $1200. lasted me 6 months. They had a real little sub culture going that I think would rival the cruisers.
Finally I graduated college at 28. married at 30. no kids. a few little sail boats. then a 35 footer at 36. Lived in Annapolis cruised the bay. We fixed and modified the boat for off shore cruising life-whoopee. We were putting the finishing touches on and I was seriously injured. Out for the count at 40.
Still have the boat finally started sailing after 7-8 years.
My youth is all I have. What I did before 40 was my (whole) life. Sure the older I get the better I was. But I am sure glad I took time off and went to europe and had a few girl friends. It is weird to be in my 40's feeling like 70's.
I love my sailboat it keeps me alive. I fantasize that I might get well enough to cruise.
So where do I fit into the discussion. Well it seems to me that our society keeps growing and technology gets "better" so boating and sailing have become easier. I froze my ass off at 25 degrees on a bike- I had a girl with me for a whole week till she got on a bus. Same with sailing. People like the comforts of home. The magazines says the median size of cruisers boats has gone up something like 5 feet a decade.
MONEY is really what many things come down to. There is a good supply of sea worthy boats cheap for the handy sailor (me) and ready to sail 1,000,000 dollar boats.
I have not cruised too much. but things that bother me sort of creep up. In Annapolis you could just anchor-then the town put in some moorings out by the naval academy. then a few years later they filled back creek (eastport) with moorings. I have seen this in other much larger anchorages. All of a sudden I cant anchor but have to pay for a mooring. Who owns the bottom? I wanted to anchor in the mooring field to prevent -well to cause trouble. It seems so unfair.
So my beef is that everyone has a hand out when you have a boat. Sailing has become so damn expensive- I cant figure out how the people afford to sail, especially the bigger boats. Even though I payed 20K I must be rich. And because HE owns a marina HE gets to pick my pocket. I live in SW florida now. Sailors are really getting bent over here. People think that sailors are getting something for free. You cant have that. Some seasonal workers (nurses) were living aboard because the sarasota housing market was not available to them ($$$). Now they are installing moorings in the anchorage and charging high prices. The people are saying we cant afford both the rent and the boat-as they are face with not being able to live aboard.
You have a sailboat you get to pay more because you are rich!!!! That is what I see. The few marineas here are more expensive then annapolis.
From what I read and see, people that live a cruising lifestyle are gregareious and enjoy the get togethers and pot lucks. This seems to happen whereever the cruisers are-I think. Good for them. Tom Neale had or maybe still has a news letter about cruising the bahamas and nearby. When asked if there were places that were still out of the way- he said yes in some backwater in georgia or in some places in the bahamas. Seems that people like people first then sailing second. You know what I mean. Tristan jones had some stories where he was alone ( I dont remember well) but friendship, other people is what people gravatate to. eventually.

Wife and I went to Hawaii ( a while ago) we rented a small car. but as these things go we ended up with a catallac Deville. (for our whole stay). Everytime we went to dinner or a hotel --there they were the hands that wanted to pick our pockets. It made me appreciate some of the hastles of wealthy people.
In 1960 I met mom dad and the nurses on my birthday. the US population was 150 million. Today they say it is 300 million. That is twice as many people an my life time. I would not ride a motorcycle even if I could. Too many people.
BOATERS ORGANIZE- we are loosing cruising grounds. some anchorages people live in and pump sewage overboard-our fault when the DEC shoots infra red and says this area is foul from sewage. I never dump sewage overboard. But at our sailing club meeting D. comes over and we are talking about heads and holding tanks. He says just open the valve and pump out your sewage when in the middle of the chesapeake bay-no one will know. SAD now D. happened to have purchased a 42 foot brand new top builder boat to go cruising. (retired) Why ?? I watched the adirondak lakes (NY) become very clear and life less while I spent a few years backpacking in them.
The original counter-culture rap - I dont know. we have sub cultures of power and sail and they get broken in to fishing boats little and big and trawlers. and for the sailors we have go fast get wet beach boats, windsurfers, day sailors, cats, monos, etc. we all belong to a bit of different sub cultures. Counterculter culture must mean your counter to something-that can be good. we have a great debate about climate change and I think the viability of our species and all species.
Over 30 years ago I started out studying environmental issues in college. It is amazing how many issues that were presented to me in 1979 are now comining up again like they are brand knew. I refuse to procreate. there are too many humans and we are very poor caretakers of our home-you cant just open the holding tank valve and make it disappear.

CRUISING HELP NEEDED; we have 2 weeks to go for a sail (and crew to help) we sail from SW florida ft myers, charlotte harbor and would like to do a trip to the dry tortugas- key west around christmas. A couple people have discouraged me due to the weather. but when the hell do you sail florida. I can tell you about 9 months when you cant.
so any advice would be helpful-yes I will post else where too.
I cant believe I read 13 pages of postings then typed so much. this computeris my wifes and the key board is really snappy- I am a mac man.

remember; life happens while you are making other plans
When I read this last night I felt infinetly sad.

As far as the OP.... the lessons of life I have learned is it is never to late to do what you desire. Just ask lost soul....

If your looking for something that is not there, then you will search in vain. Better to go and expirence it as it is, not as you think it should be, or was. The one true meaning of life is its contantly changing, ever adapting form it takes. Life will go on. Weather you are there, or not, weather anyone of us are there, or not. The old saying about if a tree falls in the woods, and there is no one around to hear it, does it make a sound? Well, guess what? It does. The world doesn't revolve around us, and our wants and desires. We are pretty inconsequental, when it comes to the big picture. And so is your question.
When you can, unplug, go sailing, cruise till you forgot the question, then cruise some more. You will meet all sorts. Be kind to all, and the world will open up to you. Let you feelings of remorse, guilt, pain, and fear go. Know that there is good in all, as well as bad. And above all, know that the superiority you sometimes feel is a negative inside of you, that one day will fade. So try not to act out on it and it will fade.
Culture, counter culture, what difference man. Its about people, relationships, learning, relaxing, sometimes with people, sometimes without.

OK,here it comes,I have enjoyed all 8 pages of this thread,and I have been around (started in the north sea in the forties I was only five my bunk close to the single cylinder diesel on the family fishing boat , cried like a baby when I had to hammer ice off rigging and deck when I was eight,and I laughed when I found Bermuda before loran) I'll be 70 soon and I am not off old money or nuveau rich. but I love the water I love the people on the water. Oh let me clarify warm, clear water, and considerate people, just 2years ago when anchored in a secluded place one of those white yacht tenders with twin engines came ideling to my boat the owner told his captain to cut the engine as he wanted to ask me where the wreck in this bay was located .I told him, and said we would be on the beach for sundowners later,with regret in his eyes he declined saying he had to move his white yacht to a safe harbor before nightfall, I could see the sadness in his eyes I was sad too. I like good conversations and sundowners , and have been known to stay in an anchorage with good people,for many days good people is the person who tells me he has a problem and must run his generator but has anchored as far away as possible.IF THE POSTERS ON THIS THREAD WERE ON THE BEACH TOGETHER I WOULD BE THERE FOR A LONG TIME, Oh I forgot to wait 12 hours before posting. Ole
reading thru these pages, there are some good words of wisdom.
See the good, leave the bad. Know that we are all interconnected in some way.

May we all find what we seek.


SV Sarah Claire blog...
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Old 10-12-2009, 22:57   #197
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Originally Posted by speakeasy View Post
I don't know how it is in Sweden, but in the US, the 35' grp coconut-eating boating community doesn't dominate culture in any form.
They don't dominate the boating culture here either (we don't have coconuts here). Just an example. I imagine though, that despite our serious lack of coconuts, the boating culture here and 'there' is probably quite similar.

Originally Posted by speakeasy View Post
Speaking of cultural differences, I'd like to apologize for Tiger Woods and the way he's treated his sweet wife (I know, she's Norwegian, not Swedish, but she is Scandinavian after all). It's a mind fork to be a nouveau riche kid in a Carnal Store.
No need to apologize She is swedish actually, her mother is a swedish politician (now hospitalized due to stress) and her father used to hold some kind of diplomatic post in washington DC I think. It's all over the tabloids over here. Vultures gathering to pick up the pieces. Sad


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Old 11-12-2009, 07:42   #198
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Tiger's Tale

Isn't it sad what the media lives on? Leave the poor man alone... He's a great golfer and I imagine a better man than most. I'm not a "fan" or in love with a personailty... I just say quit it! How little valor and integrity does this "public" that feeds on the fallen hero fantasy have? Move it up the slime scale a bit guys....

I am sick of seeing the media padding their pockets by fanning some miniscule flame into a firestorm that only THEY gain from.. They MAKE the news all too often. Personal destruction is too often the direct result of someone elses personal wealth. Shame on the media. Some media has sung the same song I am. Leave the poor man alone, why do we always have to destroy the ones that raise their head above the crowd? I thought America was about making heros, not eagerly reading about their possible demise.... If your not helping, your part of the problem... don't be part of the problem.

I'm an old man... and I have seen a certain number of, well, lets just call them "opportunities to fail" in my life. When you become famous, women and carnal opportunities are multiplied by millions. I am sure Tiger Woods has turns down more nookie in a week than I'll ever see my whole life. The fact that he "isn't perfect" in his own words, is no surprise to me.

I wouldn't have blamed Clinton for playing with Cigars.. but he showed his guff by instantly lieing and thinking we citizens were pawns that would believe whatever his famous self worshiping mouth said. Then he contiued that (still to this day) by asking what the meaning of "is" really is.... how stupid does he think we are? I'll tell you .. pretty dang stupid. Enron, all those smoke and mirrors companies were a direct spawn of the smoke and mirrors leadership we had at the time. What company, or business doesn't directly reflect the integrity of it's leaders or leaders of the free world? Think about it.

Tiger is real, he said "hey.. I screwed up.. and I'm sorry". If Slick Willie would have done that, save the existence of term limitations he would still be running this country. Tiger is real, he can have anything he wants and I guarantee you, he has shown integrity 1000 times more than you or I will ever have to.

I don't mean to be gruff or negative, my intent is to be part of the solution, not the problem so I'll leave it right there.

On a more serene note, we are about to go CRUISING! We leave next month for the Exumas. Feel free to check out our rudimentary new blog at It will get better I

Rusty Sitton
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Old 12-12-2009, 05:33   #199
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Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
We all say we want tyo get away from the "stupid people", wonder if that means we are all stupid people?

While some people with gin palaces certainly can be jerks, so can some low budget cruisers.

I have experienced both types in either behaviour, so it is not like in Orwells "Animal Farm" as some posts seem to suggest.
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Old 12-12-2009, 06:07   #200
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counter culture? what the hell IS it? I can remember when all you had to do was grow your hair to piss off the dominant culture. I dont know what I would have to do now and I dont care. I love to go sailing and I dont care how counter I seem to you or "the man" (wherever he is)
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Old 12-12-2009, 07:56   #201
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Regarding Bubba's "instantly lieing (sic), what married man on the face of the earth, when confronted with a fidelity indiscretion, wouldn't say "I didn't have sex with that woman?" Everyone, I suspect except YOU who would instantly say "Yep, I porked her and it was FUN."
A small boat and a suitcase full of money beat a 40 footer tied to a bank every time!
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Old 12-12-2009, 09:45   #202
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- - "Counter culture" is 50% nostalgia and 50% TV and Hollywood movies. Others above have accurately defined the term as being "counter" to the dominant present society/culture. So where does this "longing" for the missing counter-culture come from? Easy, in the current population of 20 to 50 year old's Hollywood has glorified the fun parts of what we lived in the 60's and 70's and totally ignored the ugly parts of that age. TV has totally warped the current whole multi-generation into seeking instant gratification without mentioning responsibility. Young folks see only that and want it for themselves - instant gratification is the byword of the present culture.
- - Immortality is the drug of the youth allowing them to do the outlandish and reckless. As others have written above - we grew up and had kids, jobs, responsibilities. Then once you grow old, mortality becomes a spectre haunting your life.
- - So how does this relate to cruising? Even though our bodies age relentlessly, our brains/minds seem to freeze at an age somewhere in the mid to late 20's. We still have the dreams but now the goal is to achieve financial stability so we can - upon retirement - return to the life of the young at heart.
- - Time moves in one direction only and populations double, triple, quadruple over a long lived person's life. You cannot go back to your youth but you can use your rewards for being responsible and industrious to build an "ark" to take you to a future of youthful adventure and fun. That means comfortable boats with reliable and safety orientated equipment. When you were a baby you had a cradle to keep you safe; not we have a floating cradle packed with safety items to allow us to concentrate on the happy activities.
- - Deprivation, doing without, risking life and limb of yourself and your partner is no longer fun - been there, done that, got too many tee-shirts in that department. Cruising is now about comfort and adventure. We abandon things like network TV, paranoid neighbors, suspicious bureaucrats snooping into everything you do, doom and disaster news broadcasts, road rage, and false frustrations and stress induced by living on land.
- - Instead, we have chosen blissful ignorance of what politician/sports/media person is screwing whom. We have real food from local farms and gardens instead of the chemical saturated growth hormone, preservative laden manufacture foods in the mega-markets. We cook dinners from scratch over a propane stove/oven, contribute our reawakened talents to a pot-luck community dinner with fellow cruisers and enjoy human fellowship talking of shared fun and adventures, past, present and future.
- - You know what - that just might fit the definition of a "counter-culture" - it is still alive and flourishing out here in the cruising world.
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Old 12-12-2009, 10:12   #203
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Marc, despite you have a Jeanneau you speak strong which I agree fully.

We are selling house and car to join and leave the proletariat in Europe to their controll society they set up by voting for this ( we should never have allowed them to vote so our mistake; alike how we messed up Africa...)

ps' my wife is from a 'former' 3rd world country and being born in Holland I have to admit that Western Europe is more 3d world despite their arrogance towards them.
I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination. (Jimmy Dean)
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Old 18-12-2009, 07:51   #204
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Counter-culture... I do believe that phrase has a very definite link to the 60's and 70's mainly in the U.S. My wife might tell me what it really meant as she was there -- Woodstock, the sit-ins and all. Me, I was out of town.
But I believe that osirissail has a point
"Counter culture is 50% nostalgia and 50% TV and Hollywood movies."
We always think thing in the past were better or worse than they actually were.
But looking for the counter-culture now -- it's a quixotic quest at best, especially since no-one seems to have a good handle on just what the phrase means.
In any case why is it necessary to define people by all-inclusive terms that rarely fit. Better to take people on and individual basis.
What does it matter how big or luxurious their boats are or are not, or how many gadgets they have. Are they congenial? are they interesting? That's what matters. Actually I've found over the years that almost everyone is intersting if you just take the time to talk to them.
As for the gadgets -- I'm not a boating Luddite. I've navigated to Bermuda using a sextant, a chronometer and sight reduction tables and I've used GPS -- GPS is better. Fact is that using a sextant on a small boat in a seaway if the position you plot is withion half a mile of where you really are you've done very very well indeed. It the weather doesn't cooperate you're down to dead-reckoning which is less accurate, especially if you're crossing the Stream.
On the other hand, I don't believe you should rely on powered winches and windlasses if you can't do the work manually if need be. 'Cause there will come a time when you'll have to and it could literally be a matter of life and death.
I don't have a tv on my boat because my wife and I don't particularly like TV. Cell phone are turned off when except when we need to make a call or couple times a day to check our voice mail.
But we do like our comforts. We have custom mattresses and good refrigerator. Lots of music CDs and books and fans and a heater. To runs this we have a big battery bank and solar panels. We also have some really warm quilts (my wife gets cold easy even in the summer.
As for crowded waterways. Well it depends. We anchored off Nevis and Antigua and there was one other boat around -- really nice folks from Gibraltar. (Will post pictures when I get the time). St. Thomas. on the other hand, was jammed with cruise ships, charter boats and visiting sailors as was Key West. Closer to home, this summer we anchored in a cove in St Leonards Creeks off the Patuxent river (this in the Chesapeake) and there was no one there but us. We were awakened in the morning by the gronking of a heron. Crowds are there but they're not mandatory.
Point of all this that instead of wondering about a chimeric counter-culture, just take everything as it comes and enjoy it. Or as they said in some book or movie -- play it as it lays.

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Old 18-12-2009, 18:43   #205
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Originally Posted by DPMatty View Post

... I wish I had been born to a time of wooden ships and no electronic navigation...
Unless you were to be born a boat boy.

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Old 18-12-2009, 19:05   #206
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Originally Posted by DPMatty View Post

<snip> Am I wrong? Can one still get away and find adventure or must a new cruising ground be pursued? Are there really any left? The questions are sort of rhetorical, but not entirely...
There's still an awful lot of empty ocean out there.
Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his own brow?
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Old 19-12-2009, 03:00   #207
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Originally Posted by DPMatty View Post

Am I wrong? Can one still get away and find adventure or must a new cruising ground be pursued? Are there really any left? The questions are sort of rhetorical, but not entirely...

I wish I had been born to a time of wooden ships and no electronic navigation...
You don't even have to go far or even find a new cruising ground to be alone or find adventure. It's as simple as going when no one else goes. All I'd have to do here in Sweden would be to go cruising between october-may, and I'd have 1500 miles of coastline and thousands of islands all to myself.

Wooden ships come cheap today and so do sextants

On the way back to Sweden.
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Old 19-12-2009, 04:59   #208
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“A Pirate Looks at Forty” ~ by Jimmy Buffett (1978)

Mother, mother ocean
I've heard you call
Wanted to sail upon your waters
Since I was three feet tall
You've seen it all
You see it all

I've watched the men who rode you
Switched from sails to steam
And in your belly you hold the treasures
Few have ever seen
Most of them dreams
Most of them dreams

Yes I am a pirate
Two hundred years too late
The cannons don't thunder
There's nothing to plunder
I'm an over forty victim of fate
Arriving too late
Arriving too late

I've done a bit of smuggling
And I've run my share of grass
I've made enough money to buy Miami
But I pissed it away so fast
Never meant to last
Never meant to last

Well I have been drunk now for over two weeks
I past and I've rallied and I sprung a few leaks
But I've got to stop wishin' got to go fishin'
I'm down to rock bottom again
With just a few friends
Just a few friends

I go for younger women
Lived with several awhile
But I've ran them away
Hell, they come back some day
And still can manage to smile
Just takes a while
It just takes a while

Mother mother ocean
After all these years I've found
This occupational hazard be
My occupations just not around
Feels like I've drown
Gonna get drunk up town
Feels like I've drown
When I get drunk up town
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"

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Old 19-12-2009, 13:40   #209
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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Unless you were to be born a boat boy.


Why is it that everybody thinks they would be the first officer or something instead of just a swabbie?
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Old 19-12-2009, 16:21   #210
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Lice, rats, scurvy, hellous discipline, flogging, death befor 40, if lucky, syphilis, no logic, no knowledge (world is flat) seriously, why would you want to ?

Today the world is round, lice can be cured, as can scurvy, you can sail alone, no one to tell you nutten, you can live to be 90, if you have the genes and money, and syphilis, well ever hear of penicillin?

Point is, life is life now, there is nothing else.

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