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Old 09-12-2009, 21:12   #181
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Well, I don't know what category someone would place me in but what I do know is that I am extraordinarily excited to start our adventure (begins in January going from Kemah, Texas to the Bahamas) and I am looking forward to joining the cruising community. I hope to experience a diversity of new friends. If the people on this forum are an example then we will have a fine time. I have enjoyed everyone ( even the ones that seem a little cranky at times ) and have appreciated the generosity and willingness to share information to us neophytes!
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Old 10-12-2009, 00:52   #182
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Yeah well jerry left on my 35th birthday-then again nixon resigned on my 14th.
I got on a motorcycle in 82 at age 22 and saw the country for a year. I came back home and told people about this sub culture of people with motor homes (mostly retired) I was camping in the rain and snow and they were all comfy. Many of them made me breakfast and said we dont get many young people traveling. $1200. lasted me 6 months. They had a real little sub culture going that I think would rival the cruisers.
Finally I graduated college at 28. married at 30. no kids. a few little sail boats. then a 35 footer at 36. Lived in Annapolis cruised the bay. We fixed and modified the boat for off shore cruising life-whoopee. We were putting the finishing touches on and I was seriously injured. Out for the count at 40.
Still have the boat finally started sailing after 7-8 years.
My youth is all I have. What I did before 40 was my (whole) life. Sure the older I get the better I was. But I am sure glad I took time off and went to europe and had a few girl friends. It is weird to be in my 40's feeling like 70's.
I love my sailboat it keeps me alive. I fantasize that I might get well enough to cruise.
So where do I fit into the discussion. Well it seems to me that our society keeps growing and technology gets "better" so boating and sailing have become easier. I froze my ass off at 25 degrees on a bike- I had a girl with me for a whole week till she got on a bus. Same with sailing. People like the comforts of home. The magazines says the median size of cruisers boats has gone up something like 5 feet a decade.
MONEY is really what many things come down to. There is a good supply of sea worthy boats cheap for the handy sailor (me) and ready to sail 1,000,000 dollar boats.
I have not cruised too much. but things that bother me sort of creep up. In Annapolis you could just anchor-then the town put in some moorings out by the naval academy. then a few years later they filled back creek (eastport) with moorings. I have seen this in other much larger anchorages. All of a sudden I cant anchor but have to pay for a mooring. Who owns the bottom? I wanted to anchor in the mooring field to prevent -well to cause trouble. It seems so unfair.
So my beef is that everyone has a hand out when you have a boat. Sailing has become so damn expensive- I cant figure out how the people afford to sail, especially the bigger boats. Even though I payed 20K I must be rich. And because HE owns a marina HE gets to pick my pocket. I live in SW florida now. Sailors are really getting bent over here. People think that sailors are getting something for free. You cant have that. Some seasonal workers (nurses) were living aboard because the sarasota housing market was not available to them ($$$). Now they are installing moorings in the anchorage and charging high prices. The people are saying we cant afford both the rent and the boat-as they are face with not being able to live aboard.
You have a sailboat you get to pay more because you are rich!!!! That is what I see. The few marineas here are more expensive then annapolis.
From what I read and see, people that live a cruising lifestyle are gregareious and enjoy the get togethers and pot lucks. This seems to happen whereever the cruisers are-I think. Good for them. Tom Neale had or maybe still has a news letter about cruising the bahamas and nearby. When asked if there were places that were still out of the way- he said yes in some backwater in georgia or in some places in the bahamas. Seems that people like people first then sailing second. You know what I mean. Tristan jones had some stories where he was alone ( I dont remember well) but friendship, other people is what people gravatate to. eventually.

Wife and I went to Hawaii ( a while ago) we rented a small car. but as these things go we ended up with a catallac Deville. (for our whole stay). Everytime we went to dinner or a hotel --there they were the hands that wanted to pick our pockets. It made me appreciate some of the hastles of wealthy people.
In 1960 I met mom dad and the nurses on my birthday. the US population was 150 million. Today they say it is 300 million. That is twice as many people an my life time. I would not ride a motorcycle even if I could. Too many people.
BOATERS ORGANIZE- we are loosing cruising grounds. some anchorages people live in and pump sewage overboard-our fault when the DEC shoots infra red and says this area is foul from sewage. I never dump sewage overboard. But at our sailing club meeting D. comes over and we are talking about heads and holding tanks. He says just open the valve and pump out your sewage when in the middle of the chesapeake bay-no one will know. SAD now D. happened to have purchased a 42 foot brand new top builder boat to go cruising. (retired) Why ?? I watched the adirondak lakes (NY) become very clear and life less while I spent a few years backpacking in them.
The original counter-culture rap - I dont know. we have sub cultures of power and sail and they get broken in to fishing boats little and big and trawlers. and for the sailors we have go fast get wet beach boats, windsurfers, day sailors, cats, monos, etc. we all belong to a bit of different sub cultures. Counterculter culture must mean your counter to something-that can be good. we have a great debate about climate change and I think the viability of our species and all species.
Over 30 years ago I started out studying environmental issues in college. It is amazing how many issues that were presented to me in 1979 are now comining up again like they are brand knew. I refuse to procreate. there are too many humans and we are very poor caretakers of our home-you cant just open the holding tank valve and make it disappear.

CRUISING HELP NEEDED; we have 2 weeks to go for a sail (and crew to help) we sail from SW florida ft myers, charlotte harbor and would like to do a trip to the dry tortugas- key west around christmas. A couple people have discouraged me due to the weather. but when the hell do you sail florida. I can tell you about 9 months when you cant.
so any advice would be helpful-yes I will post else where too.
I cant believe I read 13 pages of postings then typed so much. this computeris my wifes and the key board is really snappy- I am a mac man.

remember; life happens while you are making other plans
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Old 10-12-2009, 03:33   #183
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Well, I grew up in the surfing/hippie counter culture and was part of it. Reality set in when my son was born and I suddenly became responsible, went to work again, and became part of the so called "system"

Anyway next week my partner and I head out for my long awaited (30 years) surfing/cruising adventure. Yes I have a GPS, Chart Plotter, Radar, fridge, dvd player, laptop,iphone etc: Does that mean I'm a yuppie now? Our boat is a modest early 80's fibreglass, that I have spent 2 years refurbing and updating in my spare time.

I think your attitude is more important than the cost of your boat, or how much money you have.

There is a old saying. "If you keep looking behind you, you can't see whats up front"

my 2cents worth.
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Old 10-12-2009, 06:40   #184
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People really have not evloved much in the last 50,000 years. We are for the most part as we always have been. Infdividually we get older and by repetition see things different than we used to. It's easy to ignore some of it and recall the better parts in kinder terms than they deserve.

CF proves without question the broad diversity that people bring to the water. That never changed. You need hope and fewer excuses to find real adventure. It helps a lot if you leave the whiners home.
First, let me say that the above is some wonderful writing.

I have seldom had trouble being alone on the Chesapeake.
* If the cruising guides have a lot to say about an area, it has been discovered.
* If the cruising guide says you can't get there or that there is nothing there, see if you can.
* If the cruising guide says nothing at all, learn why.

I don't always like a lonely anchorage, even when my family is with me.
* Humans are social. Often we labor to escape the crowds for a while, but only for a while. We like other people.
* Places without people will have only simple pleasures: a beach to sit on and some fish to catch. I like that, sometimes, but not always.

Often what had been so charming is now gone. Sometime the acess problems are real and require seamanship, including the willingness to bail-out on a bad plan.

I wrote a guide to the Delmarva coast because I liked what I found when I visited and thought others would too, at least an adventurous few. It will never become popular: the access problems are real, the facilities rudimentary, and the location somewhat remote. I continually up-date the guide as a labor of love, and go there annually at least, but not nearly so regularly as my home stomping grounds. Adventure is simply too much like hard work for every day use!
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Old 10-12-2009, 06:51   #185
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Old 10-12-2009, 07:13   #186
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You Aussies are a HOOT!...I have to go there some day...ROFL

more "Baa" than hoot

visit a grocery and buy a yoghurt--you don't need a criminal record to get in and the yoghurt has a living culture
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Old 10-12-2009, 08:48   #187
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Maybe the only elitists are those 'counter culture' that discount all the others cruising!
Maybe. Wait...isn't that pretzel logic?

Wow, this thread is givin' me the munchies.
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Old 10-12-2009, 15:27   #188
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Funny to think of Herreshoff talking about how much the cruising culture had declined by the early '50s...

(in The Compleat Cruiser)
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Old 10-12-2009, 15:43   #189
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As the definition of counterculture is a culture that is opposed to the dominant culture, the counterculture of today would be very different from the counterculture during the 60's. It's olso different in different parts of the world. As the dominant culture progresses or regresses, so does the counterculture, but in the opposite direction. Every force has a countering force...

Let's say that the dominant culture in the sailing community is as follows; boats are hardly ever larger than 35 feet, usually made out of GRP and sailed by people with an avarage age of 28 and on a budget of $300 per person and month. Food is coconuts, whatever fish they could get their hands on and home brewed beer. Counterculture of that would be couples in their mid 60's on boats made of carbon fibre and titanium, starting at 45 feet and growing. They would have an unlimited budget. They would eat out every night and instead of the usual bonfire at the beach they would throw cocktailparties and serve champagne and russian caviar...

So, before we ask "Where did the counterculture go?" we should ask: What is the counter culture of 2009?

/Hampus
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Old 10-12-2009, 16:51   #190
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I've done the counter culture, a bag of rice, a bag of lentils and innumerable tins of tuna, arriving some place so smelly even my bestest friend would have turned up their nose. Then I grew up. The counter culture never recognised that we have responsibilities, not just to ourselves, but to the wider world, even to people we may never meet.

P.
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Old 10-12-2009, 18:11   #191
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more "Baa" than hoot
It's New Zealand that has a penchant for sheep, not Australia
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Old 10-12-2009, 19:06   #192
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So, before we ask "Where did the counterculture go?" we should ask: What is the counter culture of 2009?

/Hampus
This is a great question...especially with your point about the '60s. Most people of "cruising age" ARE from that counter culture - so it's interesting when they say "I grew up" or "I learned better". What those statements really mean is the more interesting issue I think. Do they mean "reality" is working for "the system" so you can buy fitty-footers and caviar instead of eating lentils and rice on a thirty? Or were these people against that '60s counter culture in the first place? What?

Personally, I'm an ex-Peace Corps volunteer, turned entrepreneur. So it's an interesting debate to me.

Whereas social cycles seem to run about 20 years or so - maybe sailing cycles run about 40 years. Young people are becoming very interested again. Then again, maybe they're just after the caviar and bell-bottoms.
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Old 10-12-2009, 20:13   #193
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I'm one of the elitists. I hate the proletariat, peasants or anyone from Third World countries, but I do like cruising in them so I can witness their suffering

Ok Dr. Leaky you can give testament to how this particular peasant is suffering in this third world country.

I always thought I was normal and happy until Nicolle remarked on what a small winch handle I have...

Everything is bigger and better for you rich white bwanas with your fancy boats...
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Old 10-12-2009, 21:41   #194
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As the definition of counterculture is a culture that is opposed to the dominant culture, the counterculture of today would be very different from the counterculture during the 60's. It's olso different in different parts of the world. As the dominant culture progresses or regresses, so does the counterculture, but in the opposite direction. Every force has a countering force...

Let's say that the dominant culture in the sailing community is as follows; boats are hardly ever larger than 35 feet, usually made out of GRP and sailed by people with an avarage age of 28 and on a budget of $300 per person and month. Food is coconuts, whatever fish they could get their hands on and home brewed beer. Counterculture of that would be couples in their mid 60's on boats made of carbon fibre and titanium, starting at 45 feet and growing. They would have an unlimited budget. They would eat out every night and instead of the usual bonfire at the beach they would throw cocktailparties and serve champagne and russian caviar...

So, before we ask "Where did the counterculture go?" we should ask: What is the counter culture of 2009?

/Hampus
I don't know how it is in Sweden, but in the US, the 35' grp coconut-eating boating community doesn't dominate culture in any form. The notion of a counter-culture was of an organic self-identified group within society opposed to the actions and direction of the Dominant Culture. The dominant culture in any place during any epoch is the culture of the ruling elite.

Perhaps a better question would be to first define what is the dominant culture of 2009 and what groups are rebelling against it. In the 60's, the counter culture united in opposition to a senseless war, racial injustice, the draft, and the rite of having to wait 'til the third date to 'do it', aided magnificently by the widespread availability of pot and psychedelics. I was off killing asians for the fun part of the 60's but caught up later as best as I could. But, I was in Europe in 1980 and never did get the appeal of ABBA. They seemed too bland and bloodless. Different culture or counter culture than the one I knew I guess.

Speaking of cultural differences, I'd like to apologize for Tiger Woods and the way he's treated his sweet wife (I know, she's Norwegian, not Swedish, but she is Scandinavian after all). It's a mind fork to be a nouveau riche kid in a Carnal Store.
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Old 10-12-2009, 21:58   #195
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.

I always thought I was normal and happy until Nicolle remarked on what a small winch handle I have...
There's a line there, but I'm avoiding it!

I have to get back to work as this rich white Bwana has to install his own solar pannels and I needed the net to check an Ohms law calculator (hey, it gets me outta the sun for 5 mins).

The bitch who measures a man by their handle is on a Planters Chair with whip.

Hark! I hear her squealing for another Singapore Sling!


I must away!........................
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