Where Has My Thinking Gone Wrong ?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by bogdwell

Don, as a long time lurker here, I have always enjoyed your posts.



Can you explain the logic here?

In the current and future market I just don't see much real profit for redoing a boat to sell, move up, fix, sell, move up....repeat. There is just too many other boats for buyers to chose out there. Your nice fixed up boat may take years to sell, and then at a 30+% discount to what you thought.

Since the materials don't really scale to the boat size, and the labor time are pretty much the same overall; get the boat size you want and just take a little more time to fix it up if going the refix route.

It is a known thing that in buying a boat it is less expensive to get a boat with what you want on it already than to add the stuff later. This means a seller is losing mostly on a fit out boat so how does this relate to your plan?

Your orginal plan kind of follows older (like 4 years ago) thinking in real estate. Look how real estate has crashed!

[David_Old_Jersey]

Refurbing 3 boats?, that's at least a couple of years........

Sounds like you have the skills needed, just that financially it makes no sense.

I wouldn't normally suggest jumping into a 40' refurb project as a first boat but if you are looking to liveaboard and as your timescale appears to have a few years in it then no problem in having a boat that is not capable of going anywhere ........and in the 40' range enough room to live in whilst other parts of the boat are a building site ......might not work though if married - and wanting to stay that way

[bogdwell]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

Could you live inside a single-size-garage wood shop?
Everything is buried under everything else, tools, clothes, food, chemicals, papers and fiberglass dust. There's not enough room for all the supplies and tools needed just to do the work.

You asked!

Yep. Kinda how I worked my way up to a 2 engine 36 ft Chris Craft... Lost that in the divorce. ..... Could it have anything to do with living in single size wood garage?

[LoveMyWoodie]

Originally Posted by cchesley

WARNING: Bucket of cold water follows...

It's the 'fixing up' part that is flawed. You won't receive value for value (sweat equity plus parts/materials). The market will not currently support that process like it used to. Remember the house flipper biz? That no longer works either. There is a surplus of boats in your market price range. Even good "clean" ones are going cheap, let alone the fixer uppers.

Theres a an been Thar done that -like me!

a very long time a go before the Internet....


I thought as a wise man I would buy a sexy big CCC Constellation...


long story made real short,lot ,may I repeat, lot of work and time...


time and work.

not saying,time and work-will work for ya.


just remember the quadruple rule.


what ya think it will take in time-double it-and multiply and at the end compounded the interest in time and materials will "quadruple ya"

but if your young and poor it will work for ya like it did work for me iffy it don't kill ya and ya got persistence and determination-which are omnipotent

[Don1500]

You can always fix this up and it only costs $13K for a 55 footer!

1975 Sampson Sea Breeze sailboat for sale in Texas

[bogdwell]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

.might not work though if married - and wanting to stay that way

Nice thing about having a Brazilian Fiancee/wife... She actually LIKES to clean stuff.... not stereotyping.... just sayin

[Morgan3820]

Originally Posted by Seaduction

I agree with this approach. Buy the one you will keep and do the labor of love on that one. I'm not sure the logic is transferrable but its kind of like getting married: Women find the men they want then "train' them to suit.

Oh well, my 2 cents.

I've bought, fixed up w/ my own labor and sold several boats over the years. Lost money everytime, which grew old. Decided the smart thing was to buy the last boat first. I can put any money/time into it and never lose because I never intend to sell it.

Buy quality, get it thouroughly surveyed. You still need to be careful in your buying. Buy a boat that no one else is wanting because of the cosmetics, smell or junk piled everywhere. Or one with lots of time consuming teak. But don't buy a derilict. It will take too much of your energy and kill the dream. Maybe one with leaky teak decks. Removing the teak and painting the deck costs relatively little but people stay away from these boats because a pro would charge $30K to do the repair. These take time to fix but not much money. Make sure the big ticket items are there already ie. ST winches, good or rebuildable engine, decent sails, furler. When time is your most abundant rescource find a boat that will need your time, not your money.

Oh and stay below 42 ft. Parts and equipment get really expensive when going much above 40 ft.

Find a seller that has given up and doesn't mind taking a loss.

If you are patient and look everyday the deal will present itself
I know that this is not the way you were thinking, but a smart man learns from the mistakes of others.

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by bogdwell

Nice thing about having a Brazilian Fiancee/wife... She actually LIKES to clean stuff.... not stereotyping.... just sayin

Then she can do half the work, cause boat repair/maintenance is 50% clean up. Drill a hole, clean up. Paint, clean up. Run some FG, clean up. Sand the wood, clean up. And on and on!

One thing to remember too! While the boat is just sitting in the water, while your working away on the top and inside, the bottom side is going to s#!^.

[LoveMyWoodie]

Originally Posted by Don1500

You can always fix this up and it only costs $13K for a 55 footer!

1975 Sampson Sea Breeze sailboat for sale in Texas

Dons joking cause he bought a beautiful sailing vessel and he just went thru some adjusting like i did since we both looking for admirals whom we miss more tan what we know.


There is a lot of money to be made iffy ya want to and ya know boats and tee economy...

this one ya can buy and do nothing to sail-BUT -ya can become a marketeer and See her wisely in the right market at the right dock-delivered and teach the new owners how to sail -

1959 Hermansons Seagoer Yawl Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com


take it from some old sailors and sellers that there is money to be made just connecting the dream to the boats selling voodoo cheap already because of the world market.


got me?


I do,I'm selling them and making some pennies to pay for me beer and ME cruising kitties.

eh ZEE? that's where the doughs at now.

she bought a beautiful sch-loop for a song nd shes become a pirate and she will market her and the sloop in the right place ,in the right time ,for much more than she paid


the money is there to be made finding the deals and delivering them to buyers,no money or sweet equity needed,just open eyes and smarts!!!!

[Duke 48]

Get a boat that will do the job and go!!! I'm still working on mine. Damn never ending list. At least for me, the Admiral is pushing the issue - WE LEAVE 10/12 - READY OR NOT. Should have left 5 yr. ago.. My choice to wait until retirement not hers. Have learned I can fix the boat anywhere...

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

I suggest you just jump to a 40' fixer upper and save the "steps".

I concur. A fellow across from me has a quite serviceable Irwin 37 ketch in very clean shape for $33K...but he'll take a few grand less. He and his wife lived aboard for some years while renting out condos and saving. Now they are going to get a newer, nicer boat...but live in a now-paid off condo.

His story is neither unusual nor exceptional, except he's in his 40s, not his 80s and swallowing the anchor.

There are many, many boats now at stupidly low prices. Pick one you can live on and repair/update at the same time, and go freshwater for older boats in (generally) better condition.

[LoveMyWoodie]

Lucky Man-Elton

You got the most valuable part your mate!

She will be a lady to sail with whatever boat your on.

Treat her like gold and get going!!!!

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by bogdwell

I want to get into sailing, but I am not a rich man. So here is the plan:

I plan to buy a small boat ....

This may be where you go wrong. To get into sailing, you do not need to BUY a boat.

b.

[zeehag]

"eh ZEE? that's where the doughs at now.

she bought a beautiful sch-loop for a song nd shes become a pirate and she will market her and the sloop in the right place ,in the right time ,for much more than she paid"


is a ketch tho-- bu he is right--even ifi dont sell her i did good--- there are deals and there are parts out and about -- not new and shiny==but that actually match the boat--- makes a difference

[LoveMyWoodie]

Originally Posted by zeehag

"eh ZEE? that's where the doughs at now.

she bought a beautiful sch-loop for a song nd shes become a pirate and she will market her and the sloop in the right place ,in the right time ,for much more than she paid"


is a ketch tho-- bu he is right--even ifi dont sell her i did good--- there are deals and there are parts out and about -- not new and shiny==but that actually match the boat--- makes a difference

Yep-ya is a beautiful sloop too for not a lot of money either>

And ya your a catch baby.

been moderated by the god in the sky and don't think i will be alive on this forum for much longer cause i p++++d off someone on the kangaroo court.

sea you in Zawhatanue!