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Old 23-04-2019, 17:03   #46
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

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Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 View Post
We get decent care
Only true if "we" means "those of us who can afford boats".

From a public health POV we lag far behind all other earlier-developed nations, and if the downward trends continue we'll slide into the middle ranks of many less-developed nations.

In poor and rural communities, Americans are already there.

Education quality as well.
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Old 23-04-2019, 17:23   #47
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

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Only true if "we" means "those of us who can afford boats".

From a public health POV we lag far behind all other earlier-developed nations, and if the downward trends continue we'll slide into the middle ranks of many less-developed nations.

In poor and rural communities, Americans are already there.

Education quality as well.

And yet Mick Jagger chose to have his heart treatment in the USA. Go figure.


I have been self-employed my entire life. Have made a lot of money per hour and not so much. I currently work in a trade as an owner and easily put in 1 unbillable hour for every billable one. I also work my subs instead of myself when things are slow, even though I could do it cheaper myself, because I want them available and loyal when things are busy.


As to the OP, just stating he makes $95/hr isn't enough information to compare it to a guy working a boatyard.
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Old 23-04-2019, 17:42   #48
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

I often wondered why the boatyard charge out rate in the US was so high when compared to what they paid their staff. In Australia I am charged between $90 and $120 $ per hour, the staff are paid around $40 to $60 per hour, go figure.. Also the staff who worked on my boats in Australia were all Tradesmen, well qualified and very good at their jobs.
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Old 23-04-2019, 17:52   #49
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

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And yet Mick Jagger chose to have his heart treatment in the USA. Go figure.

Because Mick Jagger can afford any doctor, for any treatment, in any country he so chooses. Americans, generally, don't have the financial where with all to choose a specialist doctor/surgeon, let alone even acquire or be able to afford care from any specialized care physician. The physicians available and affordable to the general American public? I guarantee are not among the list that Mick chose.
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Old 23-04-2019, 21:18   #50
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

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Originally Posted by auskiwi View Post
I often wondered why the boatyard charge out rate in the US was so high when compared to what they paid their staff. In Australia I am charged between $90 and $120 $ per hour, the staff are paid around $40 to $60 per hour, go figure.. Also the staff who worked on my boats in Australia were all Tradesmen, well qualified and very good at their jobs.
Costs of doing business. US is lawyerville, you have to have a ton of insurance.

Employees cost more than their hourly rate. You have to have insurance on them as well (not benefit type insurance), pay taxes on them, provide posters with information on how they can sue you if they stub their toe at work etc etc.

Then you have to have business licenses, permits, registrations...

Going down to some guys boat to fix it as John Smith is way different than going down as John Smith, Inc.

I work two jobs right now as a 1099 contractor solely because of the additional costs to the employer. They're aware of the laws but the risk is worth it to them vs the costs.
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Old 24-04-2019, 06:02   #51
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

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And yet Mick Jagger chose to have his heart treatment in the USA. Go figure.
You **completely** miss my point.

In fact your example helps make my point.

Yes in technological advances, and theoretical availability of exotic high tech, we are still pretty high up the list.

Which has almost zero connection to the markers of quality public health I'm talking about.

You need to be lucky, or wealthy here to routinely get those sorts of expensive high tech treatments. Still having citizen's health care tied to "a steady job" is irresponsible, even criminal IMO when that is not available to the majority of humans in the country.

Look at time series graphs on actual performance indicators like life expectancy, average infant mortality rate, women dying in childbirth.

Focus on preventive care.

Fair access to basic health care for all no matter your income level is actually still debated as to whether that should even be a goal or not!

Many truly poor "third world" countries provide better care than most of our States.
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Old 24-04-2019, 06:04   #52
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

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Employees cost more than their hourly rate. You have to have insurance on them as well (not benefit type insurance), pay taxes on them, provide posters with information on how they can sue you if they stub their toe at work etc etc.

Then you have to have business licenses, permits, registrations...
Those factors are much higher in Australia - in fact in nearly any more developed nation - than in the US.
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Old 24-04-2019, 08:36   #53
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

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Those factors are much higher in Australia - in fact in nearly any more developed nation - than in the US.
Yep, with the exception of health care. In the US it is typical for the employer to pay for it or most of it at great cost. In Austealia health care is not related to employment, all are covered.
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Old 24-04-2019, 12:53   #54
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

Too many US "employees" are fraudulently listed as 1099 freelancers, most post-depression job growth has been these sort of precarious gig economy scams.
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Old 24-04-2019, 12:55   #55
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

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In Austealia health care is not related to employment, all are covered.
Yes so the tax burden is distributed, becomes part of the rights everyone gets as a citizen.

As it should be in any civilized society.
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Old 24-04-2019, 13:50   #56
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

We got a plumber's quote for work at our house for $800 plus parts for a job I did my self in 1/2 an hour.

$1600 per hour. I could live on that.
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Old 29-04-2019, 09:24   #57
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

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Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 View Post
Compared to where?


I think I'd argue that yachting and eating out in most parts of Europe is even more expensive.


Most places in Europe charge next to nothing for healthcare, but the taxes are much higher than in the U.S.
I agree, EVERYTHING is more expensive in Europe. Why? Because they don't dink around with 6-7% State or County sales taxes like we do. They go the full Monty with an average National sales tax of 20%, which, BTW, is always included in the shelf price, not tacked-on at the register.

Now you know how they manage to offer practically free health care & college tuition without going broke: Those who buy the most, pay the most, and there are plenty of buyers out there.

Then come the audiovisual taxes. In France, you pay an extra 40 Euros a year for every TV in your house(s) whether you use them or not, which is probably why they rarely watch TV from the toilet.

Tack on an extra 33% Luxury Tax for high-end items such as Lambos and Rolexes, and you begin to understand why ostentatious spending isn't really a "thing" among the European Rich...

I always found trade-worker prices in Western Europe to be on par with those practiced here if not cheaper, once again depending on location.
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Old 29-04-2019, 10:15   #58
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

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$90,000/year for a job that technically doesn't require a high school education that allows one to bill $110 per hour and not even have 40 hour billable work weeks. This is a lot of people's fantasy job. Approaching twice the average American's take-home pay.

Ever wonder if there might be a relationship between the fees these people charge and the 'fact' that there is less than 40 hours work available? People in a lot of work fields have figured out it they just increase their fees, they both work less and get the same take-home pay. There's no mystery here. The consumers left who are forced to pay the fees (fewer and fewer all the time) themselves get squeezed. Defend this practice in any way one likes, it's not sustainable for anyone. Outside the US I've not seen this practice to any similar degree as is normative in the US.
an 'electricians license' requires 2-4 years working as an apprentice (read: low pay) before you make the big money, and many people in the construction trades work less than 50 weeks a year (2 weeks of vaca is allowed) because the work is just not available (ie: winters are typically slower)

if it's that easy, you can buy the tools, learn the trade, and do the work yourself

or, pay the electrician

and why shouldn't someone be able to earn enough for a comfortable existence, maybe even own a boat to while away the weekends?
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Old 29-04-2019, 10:31   #59
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
We got a plumber's quote for work at our house for $800 plus parts for a job I did my self in 1/2 an hour.

$1600 per hour. I could live on that.
How much did the truck, insurance, and licensing cost you when you 'did it yourself'?

If your DIY plumbing job goes bad and shiat starts leaking (pun intended), who do you call back to fix it? (or more importantly, who pays for it?)

1/2 hour of work on the jobsite involves a bit more than 1/2 hour of work
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Old 29-04-2019, 11:23   #60
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Re: Where did I go wrong?

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an 'electricians license' requires 2-4 years working as an apprentice (read: low pay) before you make the big money, and many people in the construction trades work less than 50 weeks a year (2 weeks of vaca is allowed) because the work is just not available (ie: winters are typically slower)

if it's that easy, you can buy the tools, learn the trade, and do the work yourself

or, pay the electrician

and why shouldn't someone be able to earn enough for a comfortable existence, maybe even own a boat to while away the weekends?
The OP spent at least 8 years paying out of pocket for training with no income for living expenses. Then presumably another 3-5 years working 80+ hour weeks at ~$10/hour to be qualified for his position. This is a big difference from a job that pays, even if little (probably more than $10/hour), from day 1, that maybe has less than 40 hours work available per week such that one has nights/weekends/holidays to their own devices.

Ordinarily in pure (i.e. supply/demand without fixations) economics the second job is worth less to the marketplace than the first job, and historically the remuneration for the second job would be far less than for the first job. Marx popularized the "from each and his ability to each and his needs" thing. Western civilization sort of rejected Marxist theory, though it's ironic that the most rabid anti-Marxists are often the ones who have figured out how to squeeze out a Marxist existence in an otherwise capitalist system. I don't per se blame them, but some believe that it's important to recognize if such practices are sustainable for future generations (and/or why marinas are full of mostly older boats with fewer people able to afford even an old yacht despite a much large population size than decades ago).

The reason that everyone can't have a posh existence and a yacht is because there is only so much money to be had in the system. In the US it's about $60k/person/year; globally it's about $18k/person/year. If you're taking more from the market than these averages, this means you're providing the market goods/services more than the average person. Of course, everyone considers themselves to be above average...
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