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Old 27-09-2012, 01:59   #16
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Originally Posted by Sailorman375
I don't have much faith in a survey as they miss way too much IMHO. They also won't evaluate engines, or rigging. Insurance usually requires one though. The survey contract has more disclaimers than a Donald Trump pre nup.
My survey was accurate 100%. He found I needed only one thing, an engine exhaust part, and he was correct on the price and correct in that was the only thing it needed. He told me it needed cleaning which was very true.

Every industry has people that are very good and people that get by. Find a good surveyor and they know what they are doing.

Another time to get a survey is when you are trading up. Going from a 25' to a 32' or a 40' to a 70'. Things go into play, that you could miss as the larger systems are new to you. Have a Mac X and going to a Mac M, if you really know your X, I would think the newer boat would be within your sights to see everything you are looking at, as long as you are a details person that knows how to turn a wrench. A 26' or shorter sailboat will sit on most homeowners insurance policies without needing a survey.
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Old 27-09-2012, 02:12   #17
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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif
When the cost of items I would miss on a survey become risky and expensive to me "AND" I did not feel experienced enough to evaluate the engines, rigging and systems due to complexity or lack of proper equipment.

Everyone has a different risk & cost tolerance and a different experience level.

Once I decided to hire a surveyor I would always supervise the survey 100%
One possible reason to hire a survey is for a boat purchase far away. I was 3000 miles away round trip. Travel costs, missed work, almost exceeded the cost of the sailboat. The survey and uship was a lot less than the cost of me laying hands on the boat.

Who you purchase from also goes a long way in determining value in a boat. The seller was a banker that saved all the maintance receipts. If the guy had been a do it yourself-er, with no receipts that would send off red flags.
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W.I.B. Crealock when asked what he thought of the easily trailerable Clipper Marine sailboats by a naval design collegue, Gentelman Bill responded, "I am very proud of them".
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Old 27-09-2012, 02:30   #18
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Re: When would you NOT hire a surveyor?

My brother bought a 26' boat for $5000 without a survey. It needed a lot of work. He fixed a bunch of cosmetic stuff and sailed it, fished off it and got a lot of enjoyment out of it for a few years. Then he sold it for $5000. I have no doubt a survey would have kiboshed his purchase.
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Old 30-09-2012, 00:16   #19
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Re: When would you NOT hire a surveyor?

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Originally Posted by ahnutts! View Post
My brother bought a 26' boat for $5000 without a survey. It needed a lot of work. He fixed a bunch of cosmetic stuff and sailed it, fished off it and got a lot of enjoyment out of it for a few years. Then he sold it for $5000. I have no doubt a survey would have kiboshed his purchase.
A little like saying go get married without blood tests and marriage counseling first. One or two success stories does not mean others being prudent, is foolish.
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Old 30-09-2012, 00:33   #20
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Re: When would you NOT hire a surveyor?

There is only one circumstance where I would employ a surveyor. That is if I could not get to see the boat myself. Otherwise, committed, cruising sailors with experience and a check list will do the job just fine.

I cannot think of another profession where someone will charge you a fortune to assess something, but will take absolutely no responsibility if he gets it wrong or misses something which may make your investment worthless. Where there is no accountability, there is no justice.

If you do employ a surveyor, accompany him and if you are short on knowledge, bring someone else who isn't. If he won't work beside you, don't employ him.
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Old 30-09-2012, 00:58   #21
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Re: When would you NOT hire a surveyor?

let's see ...

I didn't hire a surveyor for my 6 figure, 40+ foot purchase because:

I couldn't find a good one on 4 weeks notice (seriously ... I tried ... I needed Alu hull experience, and expected a 10+ page report ... not 2 pages!)

I wasn't getting insurance (thus no need for independant valuation)

I knew my boat required work (so I looked very closely)

The previous survey, 5 years old, was very thorough ... I went through it in person, every line.

I am a bit handy, and I am able to take my own advice, and use my eyes.

So ... how did it go?

6 months later, 3 months on the water, after a 1 month refit ... I missed a few things that a surveyor would have picked up ... on the most part they weren't expensive or hard. The expensive and hard things most surveyors would have missed (the shaft coupling went, the starter motor died! ... couldn't have looked that far into the future or seen external evidence)

YMMV
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Old 30-09-2012, 08:04   #22
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Re: When would you NOT hire a surveyor?

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Somewhere on CF a fellow known as boat poker did a thread on surveying. I think it was titled surveying 101. It was the best information on surveying that I have seen ...
How To Do your Own Marine Survey by a Marine Surveyor ("Marine Survey 101") linked/posted by boatpoker ➥ Marine Survey 101
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Old 30-09-2012, 08:14   #23
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Re: When would you NOT hire a surveyor?

This one is easy:

When to Not have a survey - when you don't care about the value of your purchase
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Old 30-09-2012, 08:19   #24
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Re: When would you NOT hire a surveyor?

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I cannot think of another profession where someone will charge you a fortune to assess something, but will take absolutely no responsibility if he gets it wrong or misses something which may make your investment worthless.
I would comment, but I have to run it by my lawyer first.

Not tomorrow, though. Got a doctor's appointment.
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Old 30-09-2012, 08:27   #25
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Re: When would you NOT hire a surveyor?

when i was making big dough i bought an ericson sight unseen--is a worthy boat-- no disappointments..i saw her out of water after purchase, she is standard, and worthy.
i bought this formosa without a survey--i WATCHED him blow engine to hell, and i WATCHED as he inflicted damages on her that are difficult to repair, and i read all the previous surveys that missed the important stuff, and i am not disappointed in the bargain i got. is a well found boat in decent shape and i am improving her bit by bit over loong time. the bits that are important were in good shape and i replaced a deck bcking plate and an engine--is still in progress of making the leaking disappear--air and fuel both leaked badly, as did oil...wouldnt keep oil inside engine even on short trips--we were lucky we didnt blow the perkins to bits, but we didnt....at least these things are fixed and all is ok..

some boats are worthy of the efforts to refit, even when that refit is dead slow and dollars are waaay short....
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Old 30-09-2012, 08:50   #26
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Re: When would you NOT hire a surveyor?

I have not hired a surveyor when it wasn't as big a financial decision, when I felt what a surveyor would offer wouldn't influence my purchase decision (given my ability to inspect it myself) and when I did not need a survey for insurance purposes.
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Old 30-09-2012, 08:50   #27
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Re: When would you NOT hire a surveyor?

We bought a trailerable boat for $5200 and didn't bother with a survey. Boat was out of the water, we were able to thoroughly look over it and there's no thru-hulls.
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Old 30-09-2012, 09:06   #28
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Re: When would you NOT hire a surveyor?

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I cannot think of another profession where someone will charge you a fortune to assess something, but will take absolutely no responsibility if he gets it wrong or misses something which may make your investment worthless. Where there is no accountability, there is no justice.
Home inspector, pre-purchase car inspector common when purchasing expensive classic cars, insurance adjustor, etc... not to mention the ubiquitous weather forecasters of the world.

People generally tend to over-estimate their own powers of perception but it's never a bad idea to employee a second pair of educated eyes otherwise known as due diligence.
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Old 30-09-2012, 09:17   #29
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Re: When would you NOT hire a surveyor?

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Home inspector, pre-purchase car inspector common when purchasing expensive classic cars, insurance adjustor, etc... not to mention the ubiquitous weather forecasters of the world.

People generally tend to over-estimate their own powers of perception but it's never a bad idea to employee a second pair of educated eyes otherwise known as due diligence.
These people, and the doctors and lawyers alluded to above, do not provide you with a disclaimer for you to witness, which absolves them of any blame. If a doctor goofs it, you have legal recourse. If a surveyor goofs it, caveat emptor!
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Old 30-09-2012, 09:48   #30
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Re: When would you NOT hire a surveyor?

Depends on your tolerance for risk of loss.

What is expensive to one may be pocket change for another.

For me personally, anything over $10k would be worth the cost of a survey. Less than that, just not worth the cost of the survey/haulout compared to the cost of the vessel. I'll trust my own critical eye and although not happy, would be able to walk away without serious damage to my financial position.

That's just me though, personally and my own individual situation. You have to make your own decision.
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