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Old 12-01-2010, 17:58   #16
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It seems to work in Cairns, can't comment from personal experience.
Kaz
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Old 12-01-2010, 22:18   #17
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To stay on board or not - personal choice really - you can to some good; chafe control etc, I would doubt that you would be able to take any avoiding action (on a monohull) most would be laid over on one tack or the other when the big gusts come through - multi-hulls seem to do much better - surge back and forth rather than 'hunt' about the chain / mooring - in 80knots+ and rain, even wearing eye protection - are you really going to see anything coming at you in time to do anything about it?

If I'm on a good mooring in a typhoon shelter, I get off.
If I'm not in a typhoon shelter, I'm not insured and so there is more incentive for me to stay on.

My overriding objective is never to be far away from a good mooring in typhoon season - anchoring for a typhoon is something I consider to be a last resort rather than a 1st choice strategy.
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Old 13-01-2010, 06:34   #18
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There's a big difference between a cat I and a cat V hurricane. If you go out on deck during a cat IV-V to add some chafing gear you will loose fingers, hands or possibly even your life.

I do not believe the stories about people adjusting/adding gear or saving their boat in hurricanes worse than cat III. During Ivan in Grenada, a sailor went out on deck during the calm of the eye to adjust things. Well before he was done the storm hit him again and he was forced to stay on the foredeck for the remainder. He told us that he didn't even dare to let go with one hand to change his position because he was sure he would not be able to hang on with just one hand. It's not just the wind blowing: you boat will move violently, up to hitting the water with the spreaders (Jedi went flat to both sides multiple times!). A lady sailor who went on deck was quickly taken away by the storm and killed.

And then there's the debris. Not just the big things flying around; there's a complete white-out so you can't see an inch in front of you. A diving mask will be ripped of your head or crushed into your nose/face. Besides water, the air will be filled with leaves and twigs and dirt which at that speed will turn any unprotected skin into a bloody mess.

And then there's the chance of mini tornado's... there were countless in Grenada. They leave total destruction in their path, even ripping the grass from the soil, with wind speeds far exceeding those of the hurricane itself. After Ivan, their countless tracks could be seen everywhere.

So I just hope that all this is enough to put the reality of a violent hurricane to your attention and make you realize you do not want to be out there dancing on the foredeck.

To see what we saw just after the hit, click here: sv-Jedi's Photos : Photo Keywords : hurricane ivan*

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 13-01-2010, 16:56   #19
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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
... If you go out on deck during a cat IV-V to add some chafing gear you will loose fingers, hands or possibly even your life.

I do not believe the stories about people adjusting/adding gear or saving their boat in hurricanes worse than cat III...

...And then there's the debris. Not just the big things flying around; there's a complete white-out so you can't see an inch in front of you...
Try adjusting your lines in a blow anything over 30 ➛ 40 kts, then remember that the force of the wind varies as the SQUARE of it’s velocity.

An increase from 30 to 42 knots (and 42 to 60, then 60 to 85, & so on) represents a doubling of wind power.

As the comedian, Ron White, says,
"it’s not THAT the wind is blowing, it’s WHAT the wind is blowing."
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Old 13-01-2010, 18:39   #20
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We just got our boat (finally) to Puerto Rico after a lot of miles with the wind on the nose. There are several popular places to tie and anchor in the mangroves but none of them are really close to Fajardo (our present marina). Maxingout...where did you anchor? Does anyone have any ideas about anchoring vs. tying up in a mangrove swamp vs. securely tying to the pilings in a "protected" marina and then watching for the surge?

I wouldn't stay aboard but I'd like to be close enough to get there whenever the wind was below something like 80 kts.
I practiced "HE WHO ANCHOR LAST ANCHORS BEST" while I was in the Navy in Puerto Rico when I was stationed at Roosevelt Roads Naval Station. For those five years we had an average of at least 5 tropical storms or hurricanes going by annually. Some years we had more.

The harbor was an open roadstead to the south east which meant there was a very large fetch coming from the caribbean and up the harbor in a tropical disturbance. I had watched many yachts drag their anchors through the fleet which always anchored in the farthest reach of the harbor. The fetch was easily more than a mile long. My strategy worked out pretty well for me because when storms passing south of Puerto Rico came through, the waves would roll up the harbor and test everyone's ground tackle. I always waited till the last so that I was the farthest out into the harbor, and I set two 45 pound CQRs at a 45 degree angle into the zone of greatest fetch. I wasn't going anywhere unless a killer hurricane came through. The rest of the yachts were off my stern and represented no threat at all to me in the direction of greatest storm surge and fetch threat.

When the storm came, I held position while the yachts with poor ground tackle dragged away from me, snagging their ground tackle on that of other yachts. I have watched yachts dragging across the anchorage during storms. As the storm passed by, all of the yachts behind me had their anchors securely dug in by the storm or were tangled in the anchor chain of another yacht. So when the wind shifted, most of the yachts held their position. The fetch was minimal in the other direction - no waves - just wind trying to drag the anchors in reverse direction.

During a storm, I feel the time of greatest risk is at the beginning before the anchors have really dug in. That's when many yachts drag. Once the anchors have set, they usually are secure, especially if there is no fetch from the other quadrants.

That's why I anchored last. I was much more worried about the front side of the storm where the fetch was greatest. That's why I wait till the last, and try to position my yacht securely against the zone of greatest fetch where no other yacht can hit me. It worked for five years. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
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Old 13-01-2010, 20:42   #21
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Luck had nothing to do with it

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Originally Posted by s/v Moondancer View Post
Is this all theory or has anyone anchored in a Cat II to III to VI? and survived...Big difference once the wind gets above 100 knots!

Anchored my Catalina 27 in a canal, a quarter mile north of the coast line at ground zero for Katrina (Pass Christian, MS) and she came through without a scratch. I was also tied off to the shore (trees), one surviving line to the shore saved her. Two other boats also made it, and they were tied to the shore as well. All boats who were only anchored were lost and some that were both anchored and tied off, mabye 10 in all. Just my two cents on anchoring for a hurricane. Of course, there is always the luck factor.
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Old 14-01-2010, 18:15   #22
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Try adjusting your lines in a blow anything over 30 ➛ 40 kts, then remember that the force of the wind varies as the SQUARE of its velocity.
Don't you ever start this issue again ;-))))

LOL
;-)b.
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Old 09-02-2010, 11:56   #23
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Tied in the mangroves...
yeppers...
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Old 09-02-2010, 11:58   #24
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One hidey hole type that is getting more common is abandoned marinas. I had one scoped out when staying near little river sc. A small basin with high banks , plenty of depth and many concrete pilings sticking up. My plan was to spider web off of as many piings as possible with enough scope to allow for surge. I just scoped another out near Tampa bay that has a deadend channel with seawalls that stiill have the cleats on. Nothing else around. Condo developers bought marina demo then left empty pending economy turnaround.
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Old 09-02-2010, 11:58   #25
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Is this all theory or has anyone anchored in a Cat II to III to VI? and survived...Big difference once the wind gets above 100 knots!
Been there.. done that and have the "T" shirt.
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Old 09-02-2010, 11:59   #26
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Don't you ever start this issue again ;-))))

LOL
;-)b.
Why?

Gord's right.... can't be done... unless of course you're a defensive lineman for the Green Bay Packers. Even then.. it's a coin toss.
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:05   #27
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1.) Haul out in advance of the storm to a place that has tie downs bedded in concrete.

2.) Mangroves

3.) run her up a creek or canal and spider tie the boat.

(notice a common thread here?...... anchoring the boat to LAND)

4.) minimum three anchors. Preferably upwind of all other boats. This method from Charles Kanter's website. It works well. I've done it with 3 Fortress anchors. They'll break before they'll release in sand.

Look at the hurricane after photos on my website to observe what happens when you don't pay attention to chaffing gear.

5.) Chaffing gear.
old fire hose ... cut up pair of blue jeans..... anything that protects the anchor rodes and allow water and air circulation, or watch your lines melt. As a side note, after the carnage of the 2004 hurricane season, insurance companies noted that double braided anchor rodes had better performance than the tried and true 3 strand. Books will be rewritten.

Chain rodes...use at your own risk if the boat's not equipped with hause pipes. Chain links make a terrific saw at 100+ knots and goes through fiberglass like butter.

6.) boat positioning. If you have to anchor the boat, always choose the smallest fetch you can find from the strongest predicted wind direction.

Hurricanes are the reason I only sail 11 months of the year here in sunny Florida. I sailed through one once (necessity) and didn't like it.
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Old 08-03-2010, 17:12   #28
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CAT IV-V, hurricane Ivan in Grenada in 2004. Jedi was at (single 176 lb Bruce) anchor and 90% of the damage was caused by another boat dragging into our anchor chain. The other 10% was minor like some cracked welds in the bimini frame.
I like the pictures of Ivan, I notice most had their sails on and some had solar panels,
dinks on deck. Seems to me, rule #1, reduce your windage, drop all sails, panels,
Bimini, maybe even halyards.
Tom
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Old 08-03-2010, 22:15   #29
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I like the pictures of Ivan, I notice most had their sails on and some had solar panels,
dinks on deck. Seems to me, rule #1, reduce your windage, drop all sails, panels,
Bimini, maybe even halyards.
Tom
Hi Tom,

It is the combination of reducing windage and tying off the boat to the seabed, trees/mangroves or whatever. If you reduce the windage, you increase the chance that you stay put and if you tie another line to something you also increase your chances. But you need to do both for a realistic chance of survival.

ciao!
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Old 09-03-2010, 20:42   #30
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When Ivan (Cat V) hit Grand Cayman in 2004 very few boats survived. The only boats that survived with minimal damage where deep in the canals or in the mangroves tied to shore or on the hard at the marina.
Most of the floating concrete docks at the Royal Cayman Yacht Club where lifted up and over the piles and washed into the mangroves. The boats tied to the docks that did not wash away broke loose and/or sunk.
Very few of the boats had been prepared for a strike. Few if any had removed sails, biminis, solar panels or lashed down any gear in preparation for the storm.
Even the dive boats and fishing boats were ill prepared. Gear was left on the boats, lines were not doubled, etc.
Few if any believed that Ivan would strike the island. Too many warnings and no strikes had produced a complacent attitude.

I decided that the safest place was at sea. A fortunant move as all the places I had scouted out were trashed by the surge which at one point covered 80% of the west end of the island.
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