Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 31-01-2009, 18:09   #16
Senior Cruiser
 
nautical62's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Live Iowa - Sail mostly Bahamas
Boat: Beneteau 32.5
Posts: 2,264
Images: 12
If I was motoring, but the wind either clocks enough picks up enough to get an aid from the sails, I'll often motor sail. If I had been close to hull speed, obviously I won't be going any faster, but if I'm getting power from the wind/sails, I should be able to decrease the RPMs and maintain the same speed which means less fuel consumption and possibly less engine wear.

Often I'll see increased stability as mentioned before.
__________________

__________________
nautical62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-01-2009, 19:32   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
The only time I don't have the main up and I am "going somewhere" is to the fuel dock or into and out of the anchorage. I find that unless the wind is right on the nose the boat will move faster. When it's on the nose I tack back and forth through the eye of the wind.

When schedules or time is not an issue I enjoy sailing very slowly too. It's very peaceful. But we have an auxiliary and access to fuel and use little of it actually so motor sailing doesn't seem like such blasphemy. We also create energy for the hot water, charge the batts and chill the refer.

I do hate the noise of motors.
__________________

__________________
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2009, 08:09   #18
Senior Cruiser
 
nautical62's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Live Iowa - Sail mostly Bahamas
Boat: Beneteau 32.5
Posts: 2,264
Images: 12
In some situations motor sailing can be a safety backup to running the motor as well. If your motor should unexpectedly quit, you have an immediate form of power and control which in some situations could mean the difference between hitting another anchored boat or reef or not.

I actually had that happen one time when leaving an anchorage that had a current running through it. At the time I was on a sailboat with an outboard auxillary and just as we were leaving anchor, the motor cut out. (Fuel delivery issue) fortuntely with the main up, we had some control until I got it going again. If you charter from the Moorings in St. Martin, they request you enter and depart the harbor which requires skirting a couple reefs motor sailing for the same reason.
__________________
nautical62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2009, 09:09   #19
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Most sailors publicly understate their amount of motoring. Anonymously they admit to a lot more.

We motor sail quite a bit. On passage making, like MarkJ, it's about conserving the juice for when you really need it. For coastal sailors like us it's about hitting the anchorages on time. A lot of times motoring saves the schedule.

We have the main up 100% of the time.
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2009, 09:42   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
What dan said...

We need to get into the anchorage often to find a decent spot, set up the dink and take the dogs to shore to empty them - especially true when we do a long sail. We do what makes sense. Also making landfall in daylight is a prudent thing to do and if it means putting the motor on, so be it.
__________________
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 13:03   #21
Registered User
 
Amgine's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 1,384
Images: 1
When to add sail?

I usually have the sail up any time I can get a benefit from it - either stability or power.

I find my fuel cost per hour drops approx 10-20% with the main up, though I haven't done any precise measurements. When the wind is reasonably favourable and I'm motoring to meet a schedule or because the current is foul I use the sails and throttle back
to maintain near hull speed. Sometimes the motor is barely over idle speed. When the wind isn't helpful, I can still get some benefit sheeting in pretty much flat and doing 5-10 degree tacks.

But I have to admit I get really bothered motorsailing because at the moment I don't have the proper day shapes aboard. It's a personal hang-up.
__________________
Amgine
Blog

On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog anchored in a coral atoll.
Amgine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 13:41   #22
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,594
I do it the opposite. I use the sails and turn on the diesel only when I need/want to go faster than sails alone will provide. sounds like you motor first and sail second? Huh? I must assume that you've got a sailboat that motors better than it sails...
__________________
Randy

Cape Dory 25D Seraph
rtbates is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 13:45   #23
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nevada City. CA
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 3,745
Images: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Most sailors publicly understate their amount of motoring. Anonymously they admit to a lot more.

We motor sail quite a bit. On passage making, like MarkJ, it's about conserving the juice for when you really need it. For coastal sailors like us it's about hitting the anchorages on time. A lot of times motoring saves the schedule.

We have the main up 100% of the time.
I agree. Hi my name is Charlie and I am a motor sailor. Had a nice trip the other day. Weekend in San Diego with three buddies. Got out of the Marina and then cut the engine. I didn't want to turn the thing on again all day. We didn't turn it on again until we were headed into the anchorage. Saw 1.7 knots on the GPS but there was no engine noise. Another day I sailed off the anchor with the main. I had the engine on but in neutral ( we were close to a lee shore). From there we sailed out of Mariner'd Cove and then out the Mission Bay breakwater all with the engine in neutral. There wasn't that much wind in the channel but good sized waves and I didn't want to get stopped by a wave and end up on the rocks. After we cleared the breakwater we sailed all the way in thru Point Loma and then into Shelter Island. Total time with the motor on that day (excluding neutral engine on time) was 12 minutes.

Schedules really increase your motoring time. If you have to be somewhere the motor makes that possible. When I motor I like to have the main up. I usually have to force the rag to look like a sail. Add some vang and outhaul along with traveler adjustments. It does a good job of steadying the boat in lumpy seas.
__________________
Fair Winds,

Charlie

Between us there was, as I have already said somewhere, the bond of the sea. Besides holding our hearts together through long periods of separation, it had the effect of making us tolerant of each other's yarns -- and even convictions. Heart of Darkness
Joseph Conrad
Charlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 14:02   #24
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tasmania
Boat: VandeStadt IOR 40' - Insatiable
Posts: 2,317
Images: 91
The prop on our boat is pretty undersized (small 2-blade feathering - damn those original racing orientated owners). In flat water, no breeze we can get pretty close to hull speed, buy it doesn't take much headwind and/or chop to slow down our progress significantly. When motoring into a decent breeze we tend to pull up the main and motor sail. This makes the ride more comfortable, gives us a little extra speed and allows us to back off the engine revs a little; conserving fuel and reducing load on engine (fwiw, having a sail to "trim" gives you something to do, heh)

In light breezes, we do sometimes motor sail as well, if we have a deadline to meet.
__________________
Weyalan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 14:34   #25
Registered User
 
Amgine's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 1,384
Images: 1
rtbates: No, I was just responding to the question which had been explained as - "when already motoring, when do you use sails?"

On the other hand, when I'm beyond Desolation Sound the tide rules over wind. The narrow channels, the high tidal currents, and the seasonal wind from the NW usually has me motoring all the way up, and sledding on the way back when the tide is favourable. The tides over-rule the motor, too, so I have to be anchored or tied up whenever the current is foul.

Good to hear you're sailing where you don't have such considerations. But you're missing our natural beauties and the challenges of getting there.
__________________
Amgine
Blog

On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog anchored in a coral atoll.
Amgine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 15:12   #26
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amgine View Post
rtbates: No, I was just responding to the question which had been explained as - "when already motoring, when do you use sails?"

On the other hand, when I'm beyond Desolation Sound the tide rules over wind. The narrow channels, the high tidal currents, and the seasonal wind from the NW usually has me motoring all the way up, and sledding on the way back when the tide is favourable. The tides over-rule the motor, too, so I have to be anchored or tied up whenever the current is foul.

Good to hear you're sailing where you don't have such considerations. But you're missing our natural beauties and the challenges of getting there.
OK. I'd say I use the main while motoring anytime the apparent wind is aft enough to make the sail function. I sure am thankful that I don't have to deal with your tides/currents!!!
__________________
Randy

Cape Dory 25D Seraph
rtbates is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 18:00   #27
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tasmania
Boat: VandeStadt IOR 40' - Insatiable
Posts: 2,317
Images: 91
Just worth mentioning; you can motor-sail much closer to windward with main than with headsail
__________________
Weyalan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 18:55   #28
Senior Cruiser
 
Starbuck's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 827
Those Rocks are Sharp

My main is up whenever I'm out of the fairway, and until my anchor is set (or I'm entering a tightly-placed mooring field like Catalina Island where the quarters are just too close to make tight maneuvers in a breeze with canvass flying).

I've had more than one stalled engine in a channel, and because I had the main drawing, I still had way on & steerage to sail in to anchor in the basin, or out to open water. No scratches yet.

Yes, for stability, too, but for safety, first. I'm always nervous when motoring under bare poles in close quarters. My fuel-related stalling is fixed now, but the experiences have taught me.
*** *** *** ***
Now, as for slow sailing, I'll go down to 2kts if I've nowhere to be: light air is good practice. Inside the bay, if I really need to point up & don't have the keel lift to do it, I'll start the engine rather than put in 4 tacks.

Outside the breakwater, the San Pedro Channel is only 25 miles wide between Long Beach & Catalina Island: seems silly to be a purist & treat the engine as ballast when it could be helping me get there before dark. I'll still only burn 5.5 gal. if I have to motor both ways, and on the way out (normally a close-hauled point) I'll have hot water and charged batteries when I arrive. Good trade.
__________________
s/y Elizabeth Catalina 34 MkII
"Man must have just enough faith in himself to have adventures, and just enough doubt of himself to enjoy them." G. K. Chesterfield
Starbuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 20:25   #29
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Aquaholic,
Sometimes adding a bit of sail while you're motoring will allow you keep the same boat speed and throttle back a bit on the engine speed therefore saving a bit of fuel.
Kind regards,
JohnL
__________________
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2009, 20:26   #30
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Oops, just noticed someone already said that. Sorry.
__________________

__________________
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:53.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.