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Old 02-08-2012, 04:51   #91
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

ALIZE, Reserve at least 1/3 of your available boat money for equipping, maintenance and repair of the vessel that you ultimately purchase. Every used boat is going to need a considerable investment prior to its meeting seathworthiness and safety considerations. gts1544
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:00   #92
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

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Originally Posted by ALIZE View Post
all yours advices helps me to put some info together... thanx a lot! to all of you !!!
i already know a i want a fiberglas monohull us i cant finance a catamaran! i think somethink like formosa32 -42 will suit me the best.
I don't know if this link will appear since this boat sold but as I mentioned it is a buyers market.

NO RESERVE Formosa 41 Ketch Sailboat NEW MASTS main&mizzen NEW Rigging $25K cost in Sailboats | eBay Motors

This 41' Formosa Ketch sold for 10K. This is not to say how may thousands you would have to put into it but if I were younger I would have bid on it....

RT
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Old 02-08-2012, 08:08   #93
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

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Originally Posted by vtcapo View Post
I don't know if this link will appear since this boat sold but as I mentioned it is a buyers market.

NO RESERVE Formosa 41 Ketch Sailboat NEW MASTS main&mizzen NEW Rigging $25K cost in Sailboats | eBay Motors

This 41' Formosa Ketch sold for 10K. This is not to say how may thousands you would have to put into it but if I were younger I would have bid on it....

RT
To each his own, but to me this boat is butt ugly.
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Old 02-08-2012, 08:35   #94
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

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Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
In the context of the OP's budget, a full keel mono may be good advice, but in the context of what's safest, it's striking that no-one has mentioned a quite different option favoured by (and some would say proven ... I would say, not disproved) a number of those who spend much of their time in the Southern Ocean or Antarctica.


.
Since OP is a noob I doubt he is thinking Southern Ocean at this time.
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:09   #95
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

Alize, the OP, said he wanted to sail UK and Mediterranean waters.

Depending on which UK waters, and what seasons....arguments could be made for both...mono and multi. It's his choice, and watching us go at it hammer & tongs is probably entertaining and instructive.

Personally, my opinion & choice, just the one hull is fine...ok, multi is faster, heels less, can anchor in shallow water, sits on the hard, has a lot of deck space; but if capsized won't be coming right way up without a lot of effort, doesn't handle so good in heavy weather or at anchor, can't add much weight before suffering under it...it's enough for me. My mono is being designed for self-righting and unsinkable, as far as that last is achievable, and it will take more of the weather than the crew, and can sit on the hard, too; but with draft approching 6', not for the shallows...though there are ways around that
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Old 02-08-2012, 16:30   #96
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

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Originally Posted by K_V_B View Post
To each his own, but to me this boat is butt ugly.
Excuse the cliche but beauty IS in the eye of the beholder. A little TOO traditional for you? Aside from the looks of the engine what's not to like in getting a 41 footer for 10K?

RT
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:05   #97
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

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Excuse the cliche but beauty IS in the eye of the beholder. A little TOO traditional for you?
To each his own, indeed.
Now, for me the problem is not that it is "too traditional", rather not traditional enough.
I like traditional boats, however their looks follow from the constraints imposed by the materials and building techniques used at the time.
When a builder that is not constrained by those limitations still chooses to add superflous traditional elements that makes my skin crawl.

Think of the difference between a real old house, and a modern house built in an "pretend to be old" style.

Quote:
Aside from the looks of the engine what's not to like in getting a 41 footer for 10K?
The fact that it might end up being a lot more expensive in the long run than a 100K 41 footer?

And there is too much wood on deck. And look at that skilight...
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:56   #98
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

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Since OP is a noob I doubt he is thinking Southern Ocean at this time.
Touché

(they don't make noobs like they used to)

On a more serious note, as I thought my post had made clear, I didn't actually think he would be a candidate for down under yonder; what I was trying to illustrate was that there is NO consensus on such questions as "the safest type of hull".

Sailing is an equal opportunity activity: all sacred cows are equally likely to get roasted.

Some activities do converge towards some sort of 'best practice" over time (eg operator interfaces in motor vehicles- you don't get to choose a tiller anymore ... or, take say, computer code: hexadecimal is not likely to disappear anytime soon... etc)

Whereas what constitutes 'safe', when it comes to the design, building and operation of sailboats, is FAR from having converged.

Which is why it makes no sense (to me) for authorities to mandate safety equipment and such ... as (strangely) the French have done for a long time now.

They even say which stock boats are allowed how far offshore. SHeesh!

The objectives, constraints and available resources are so different from one vessel and equipage to another, it seems to me, that forcing expenditure and effort in certain arbitrary directions is almost certain to compromise the outcomes.
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:04   #99
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

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Originally Posted by K_V_B View Post
To each his own, indeed.
Now, for me the problem is not that it is "too traditional", rather not traditional enough.
I like traditional boats, however their looks follow from the constraints imposed by the materials and building techniques used at the time.
When a builder that is not constrained by those limitations still chooses to add superflous traditional elements that makes my skin crawl.

Think of the difference between a real old house, and a modern house built in an "pretend to be old" style.



The fact that it might end up being a lot more expensive in the long run than a 100K 41 footer?

And there is too much wood on deck. And look at that skilight...
I would have to agree that unless the boat is surveyed and you know what you are getting into one could easily dump untolled thousands into her. But please explain your "superflous traditional element". If he is interested in a Formosa he is going to have teak and alot of it. As far a the skylight is concerned, yeah a problem. I never knew one that didn't leak but they sure look nice when finished and sealed properly.

RT
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:05   #100
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

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Originally Posted by vtcapo View Post
I would have to agree that unless the boat is surveyed and you know what you are getting into one could easily dump untolled thousands into her. But please explain your "superflous traditional element". If he is interested in a Formosa he is going to have teak and alot of it. As far a the skylight is concerned, yeah a problem. I never knew one that didn't leak but they sure look nice when finished and sealed properly.
You've already given one: The wooden skylight. This is an example of an inferior solution chosen purely on the basis of appearance. That a 19th century boat builder would put something like that on a boat is understandable. That a boat build in 75 has it is crazy.
The wooden masts are another thing. And the whole superstructure looks like it's wood.
No wonder nobody is buying it...
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:29   #101
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

Nothing wrong with wooden masts and spars..
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:55   #102
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

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Originally Posted by ALIZE View Post
im on my way of doing it.!
Wow not a single practical answer - or maybe I just didn't read far enough.

In general, a longer hull is a safer one. From there, it's a matter of determining how much boat you can afford, and/or how little you would want to live with.

A sea-safe catamaran of 40' or more is large and luxurious, and starts around $200k for a late model in fair condition. Shorter than that, and you should start looking at longer monohulls if safety is a prime concern. A 36 or 38 catamaran is "pretty safe", but is generally considered to be highly uncomfortable in moderate to high seas.

The strength of build is also a factor. The major cruising manufactures are making strong, safe boats. There have been designs in the past, and surely designs coming out now, which are not as strong or stable as others.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:58   #103
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

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Nothing wrong with wooden masts and spars..
Nothin wrong with wooden boats eithere. But nowadays we have better materials. Why not use them?
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:05   #104
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

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what kind of hull will be the safest one for a all world around sailing boat monohull? catamaran? or ttimaran?
thanx
Trimarans are high performance boats (in general), and are safe when skillfully operated. I understand, but have no real experience, that if overpressed they can capsize.

Cruising style catamarans are generally underpowered, and therefore would take a literal act of God to capsize. There are performance cats, however, which can be capsized with some effort.

Monohulls are difficult to capsize, but are more subject to sinking and grounding.
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Old 03-08-2012, 12:26   #105
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

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Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
Usually when people answer a question with a question, it's because there is no answer to your question, or because it seems to them that you need to embark on a long discovery process in order to answer the question for yourself, or at the very least that no-one else can answer it for you.

In this case, I think the issues of religions (including gun ownership) are being raised as a wry nod to the nature of the unanswerable.
I learned a long time ago that if someone has something for sale and there are lots of options ie ,different colors,styles,materials, that it was a lot easier to make a sale if you answer a question with a question,for example: lady wanted to buy some carpet she asked what colors do you have ?I ask what color do you like?(some would think I was being a smart ass,not!) she says that she likes blue,I have several different blues, so now I have not wasted her time or mine by answering her question directly...It would have taken quite a while to tell her I have Green , yellow ,silver, sage,seafoam , Purple,gray ,etc...She liked blue why waste time answering questions with answers when another question will get the question answered?The correct answer for this question is obvious it is a mono hull with a modified full keel with a cutaway!right? ..DVC
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