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Old 30-07-2012, 15:51   #46
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Yes it was, but in the 1979 Fastnet race I believe there were a couple of fin keeled race boats abandoned that also survived the storm unattended.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think one of the light displacement fin keelers had their crew holding on to it for dear life. I agree with most of what you say and Sailing with Soul breaks it down perfectly but almost all of you are going way beyond the question which is quite simple. If caught in a Hurricane would you rather be in a full keeled monohull or a multi-hull. I'm not talking about getting a heads up from my sat nav weather station or being able to out run it in my Sun Deer 64. I am talking about CAUGHT.
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Old 30-07-2012, 15:58   #47
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

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Originally Posted by bruce smith View Post
I have been hit twice by hurricanes at sea in my venus ketch, 12 ton double ender. 1991 and 2006
Yes , a fast boat can probably avoid them , and they usually do.
Based on the equipment you had on board in '91 if you had a boat of the same size but faster could you have avoided the storm?

RT
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Old 30-07-2012, 15:59   #48
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

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Originally Posted by K_V_B View Post
It's like asking: What type of car would you rather be run over by a train in....
I think you are avoiding the question...

RT
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Old 30-07-2012, 16:03   #49
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

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Originally Posted by Paul L View Post
And if checking the weather download from Sailmail you see a storm building a day away and you have 250 miles to make a decent, protected harbor, would you rather be in a Slocum 37 or a Sundeer 64?

Making up scenarios to prove a point gets a little absurd after awhile.
Who's making up scenarios? The question only requires a, mono or multi answer.

Are you in politics?

RT
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Old 30-07-2012, 16:10   #50
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

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Originally Posted by ahnutts! View Post
So a Westsail 32 survived a hurricane one time? That obviously makes it the greatest boat ever built then.

A friend of mine survived a car crash while driving a Ford Pinto, does that make the Pinto the safest car?
I am sure some Westsails owners will argree with you. If your friend still has the Pinto its worth a lot of money in mint condition. But tell him to fix the gas tank.

Now back to the question: mono or multi

RT
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Old 30-07-2012, 16:51   #51
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

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Originally Posted by vtcapo View Post
Based on the equipment you had on board in '91 if you had a boat of the same size but faster could you have avoided the storm?

RT
If hurricanes were 100% avoidable why would anyone of a sound mind EVER be caught in one??

A modern 300ft cruise ship is capable of 30-40Kts, yet was overtaken by a hurricane the crew was actively trying to avoid, and sunk with all hands.

I highly doubt a sailboat being able to make 9 kts instead of 8 will fare better in the avoidance matter.

As for weather??? The cruise ship had satelite and weatherfax I'm sure, after all they had anough warning to put passengers, and excess crew on shore before trying to run before the storm, and attempted to circle around the back.

Unfortunately the storm reversed course and flowed back over the top of them leaving them on the now dirty side.

The top and bottom of it is either avoid going far offshore during hurricane season, or plan on running into one.

One account I read (Pardley), stated they tried to avoid a hurricane, but were sucked up to it hundreds of miles from their intended course by strong currents stirred up by the storm.

A storm made up of winds over one hundred miles per hour, is not going to be outrun by anything slower than a jet.
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Old 30-07-2012, 16:52   #52
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

Multi and the more hulls the more safety. Is it not OBVIOUS?

Fourtyhulls normally fare very, very well.

;-)
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Old 30-07-2012, 17:02   #53
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

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Originally Posted by vtcapo View Post
Based on the equipment you had on board in '91 if you had a boat of the same size but faster could you have avoided the storm?

RT
I actually HAD a sat phone, but never downloaded the weather grib thingy. We heard the word "hurricane" on the shortwave receiver , and called home on the sat phone , and scared our family and freinds This was Hurricane Sergio , the latest storm ever, November 18th. I had spent 6 months in the Bay and San Diego to miss hurricane season. go figure.
And another thing, the storm was switching direction like Ricochet Rabbit ( if you remember him) . In this case , a faster boat might have put me more in the way. The "correct " direction for me to go was upwind , something I was not willing to do, so I just spent the day prepping the boat.
.
So, It was only later, I was able to overlay the track of the storm with mine, and see that it passed 35 miles away, but it was a huge storm. I was 200 miles west of Acapulco, going direct from San Diego to Panama. ( I limped into Acapulco a few days later for a few days.
The earlier one was Hurricane "Nana" , north of Bermuda.
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Old 30-07-2012, 17:13   #54
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

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Originally Posted by vtcapo View Post
Who's making up scenarios? The question only requires a, mono or multi answer.

Are you in politics?

RT
You made up the scenario to make your point
Quote:
If caught in a Hurricane .......
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Old 30-07-2012, 17:15   #55
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

My boat is the one in my avatar. She is just a tad bigger than a westsail32 but has the slack bilges of an Ingrid.
She lays a hull, bare poles, in up to around 70 knots. Over that , I have to try and get a scrap of mizzen back up and sheeted half way in to keep the bow up. That can be an hour of dangerous work.
I have often told folks that my boats best point of sail is "no sail" .
I carry a drogue and a sea anchor, but have never deployed them.
She is very full in profile, no "cutaway".
Once the storms were past, we felt grateful for , and more confident of , our boat . The worst part was the noise. finnally getting a bit of sleep, waking from a nightmare to a worse reality.
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Old 30-07-2012, 17:35   #56
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

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Originally Posted by vtcapo View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think one of the light displacement fin keelers had their crew holding on to it for dear life. I agree with most of what you say and Sailing with Soul breaks it down perfectly but almost all of you are going way beyond the question which is quite simple. If caught in a Hurricane would you rather be in a full keeled monohull or a multi-hull. I'm not talking about getting a heads up from my sat nav weather station or being able to out run it in my Sun Deer 64. I am talking about CAUGHT.
I answered the question in the previous post. Read #40.

My opinion the question was asked incorrectly, only allowing 2 options out of many possible plus the question was too simplistic anyway. First I would say the question would be more relevant if it include options beside a full keeled monohull or a multihull. Then it completely ignores all the other variables of the boat design, quality of construction, rig, displacement, etc.
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Old 30-07-2012, 17:40   #57
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

In a storm, the best hull is submersible.......like a submarine
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Old 30-07-2012, 17:54   #58
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

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thank you all very much for all help.
Steel...they have been making battleship out them for 100 years.
you are welcome
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Old 30-07-2012, 18:11   #59
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

The Atkins modification of the Archer North Sea Lifeboats have been sailed around the world in wood more than any other design. Vito Dumas single handed his in the '40s. Robin Knox Johnston sailed Suhaili to First and only in the Inaugeral Single Handed Around the World Race. Kendall had the design slightly modified to build the molds that ultimately became the W32 because of its reputation for being a solid sea boat able to take everything that the sea can dish out. The 'Perfect Storm' of book and movie fame was a considerably worse meteorologic event than the Fastnet race storm. The Atkin's Eric/Thistle/Westsail 32 are hell for stout boats that I felt safe in taking wherever I wanted to go. Still, the boat was/is a compromise. It is extremely heavy displacement with a lot of wetted surface so are not fast in light air. Give them a bit of wind they will embarass most boats with the same waterline except maybe ultralights surfing DDW.

As far as outrunning a hurricane, forget it. Typical hurricanes move at between 10-30 knots. Even a 60' sled will not be able to out run a hurricane moving at those speeds. You can get out of the way or head for the most advantageous quadrant, however. Most tropical storms are less than 200 miles in breadth though a few are considerably larger. Given a bit of wind, most any boat will be able to get into relatively safe water given a day or two warning and a storm that obeys the weatherman's dictates. If I was to be caught with my pants down by a hurricane, however, I'd like to be in a w32 rather than a 45' Beneteau or any multihull. The W32 is built to take the crap where a typical production cruiser/racer just isn't.

It's not full or fin keel, within reason, that makes the difference. There are quite a number of fin keel boats that I'd feel safe in. They are not the modern fat assed, ultra short keeled boats that are being turned out today, however. You give up light air performance in most full keel boats. They will still sail, just not as fast until the wind kicks up to about 10 knots. What most of the older full keel boats have is displacement and hull shapes that make for easy motion. Doesn't matter how fast a boat is if the crew is incapacitated and the motion of the boat so quick the crew can't easily take care of her.

Personally, think the idea of getting an ultra light flyer so you can outrun a storm is a fairy tale. Better to have a boat with reasonable performance that will survive. Oh, there is nothing like waterline length if we are talking ability to cover miles. Whether a boat has a fin keel or full, the boat with the longer waterline will almost always win other than DDW surfing. A W32 is capable of 170 mile plus days, have done it many times, but a sundeer 60 should be able to nearly double that just because of the longer waterline. Would I like a Sundeer, probably. Could I afford it, not easily. Would I sacrifice everything and be forced to sit in the harbor in one because I'd blown all my money on it, not likely.
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Old 30-07-2012, 18:31   #60
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Re: whats the safest kind of hull?

The one that is underneath you...
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