Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-08-2016, 11:11   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 6,826
Re: What to do in case of a storm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave22q View Post
This is a great question so I asked Boat US for an opinion-- which is better; stay in a somewhat sheltered marina with extra lines across adjacent slips to allow for tidal surge or run for the mangroves, 30 minutes away but more exposed to surges rolling in from the ocean? Of course, they started with a quick haul-out but I lack the crystal ball to predict the hit and the lifts will have a week or more backlog. After I knocked out their straw-man, they avoided taking a position. That leaves me exactly where I started. If the storm is a day out and headed straight for me I MIGHT head for the mangroves but probably not. At that point leaving the boat is not an option. If something fails, I want a shot at compensating.
I would never willingly stay aboard. No boat is worth dieing for. Prep early and get outta town.
__________________

__________________
belizesailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2016, 11:23   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kemah, Texas
Boat: Nauticat 43, Hunter 170
Posts: 62
Re: What to do in case of a storm

Hurricane Ike impacted the Galveston Bay area in 2008 causing extensive damage. For example, see video at . Waterford Harbor Marina is a special case as far as marinas go, since it is a hurricane hole (i.e. the boats are in slips below a berm on which are surrounding buildings and houses). But, I think the biggest advantage for Waterford, as seen in video at , is the marina had floating docks. After Hurricane Ike, almost all local marinas have upgraded to floating docks. As long as dock cleats are sized adequately and the docks have good structural integrity, there shouldn't be problems with docked boats. A named-storm response plan will need to indicate your sailboat is secured with ten appropriately sized dock lines (i.e. bow, stern, breast, fore and aft spring lines on each side). And, the sails (and bimini cover) need to be removed.
__________________

__________________
Ded reckoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2016, 11:28   #18
Moderator
 
Hudson Force's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Lived aboard & cruised for 45 years,- now on a chair in my walk-in closet.
Boat: Morgan OI 413 1973 - Aythya
Posts: 7,808
Images: 1
Re: What to do in case of a storm

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
Having been in just a mild hurricane on shore (Gonzalo in Antigua in '14) and having seen docks split, lines part violently and cleats pull from lumber, I've gone off the "secure dockage" idea. I now conclude that tying off in a mangrove swamp (if available) or up a creek (if surge can be anticipated) and securing to trees is one possibility and so is going to sea and heaving to.

In some cases, even beaching could preserve the boat. These are not easy choices, obviously.
Please notice that I was not advocating a marina when I said, "....secure holding or dockage....". Most of my successes without damage during tropical systems have been with secure holding at anchor, but I would not discount a marina at a suitable location,- inland, no fetch, not subject to tidal surge.

I seek the following traits for a good "hurricane hole":

1) Inland from coast
2) Little or no fetch in all directions
3) Good holding substrate
4) Shallow enough for best rode angle
5) Forgiving shoreline without rock, etc.
6) High surrounding topography
7) Little lose debris
8) Few other boats

I've never found all of these, but I usually find the first four on the list.

I recognize the advantages of a mangrove tie absorbing much of the force, but I reject the tree tying and "spider-webbing" of lines when not at a very secure protected dock. I'm in favor of being able to swing to present my bow facing directly into the wind if I'm able to find a place as I listed above.
__________________
Take care and joy, Aythya crew
Hudson Force is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2016, 11:35   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 6,826
Re: What to do in case of a storm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ded reckoner View Post
Hurricane Ike impacted the Galveston Bay area in 2008 causing extensive damage. For example, see video at . Waterford Harbor Marina is a special case as far as marinas go, since it is a hurricane hole (i.e. the boats are in slips below a berm on which are surrounding buildings and houses). ....
Dramatic images of why a marina is often not the best option. I've seen similar destruction in many different places (Texas, Florida, Louisiana....) while boats survived with no significant damage in the mangroves.
__________________
belizesailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2016, 11:46   #20
Moderator
 
Hudson Force's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Lived aboard & cruised for 45 years,- now on a chair in my walk-in closet.
Boat: Morgan OI 413 1973 - Aythya
Posts: 7,808
Images: 1
Re: What to do in case of a storm

Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Dramatic images of why a marina is often not the best option. I've seen similar destruction in many different places (Texas, Florida, Louisiana....) while boats survived with no significant damage in the mangroves.
... but far more important the choice between between mangrove or marina is the location of the mangrove or marina. Which side of the barrier island? .... how far up the river? ........ open to the bay or lagoon? ..... at the head of a funneling basin? It's like the real estate axiom, "Location, location, location!"

In all those places (Texas, Florida and Louisiana) there was a nearby place in the same storm path without the same degree of damage.
__________________
Take care and joy, Aythya crew
Hudson Force is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2016, 12:20   #21
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,222
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: What to do in case of a storm

the pictured marina is a proven hurricane hole in southwest coast of mexico. there are 2, one is ixtapa and one is isla navidad. .
the mangroves pictured on the lil island are protected.. tested by patricia. same marina. as wind here blows against the incoming alleged surge, we hadnt any. awesome....just donot place boat in the beam to wind slips. . not fun. tie to pilings as well as cleats. the only damages were to a derelict newport 28 or 30, and to a hunter that was tied with thin strings(3/8 line). doubled but they were strings. he was stern to incoming wind. all boats facing into the initial winds were perfect. my boat dislodged a cleat from dock, but i had also tied to 3 pilings so i was not concerned. no damages other than boarding ladder occurred due to this.
youm ay wish to remove your masthead wind gen, as your mast coul;d easily break under it, as did my wood mast--sprung a crack on glue lines from heavy winds twisto-flexing my wood mizzen. i had not prepared for 200 mph steady winds. our gusts were 250 Mph.
as most folks head out of cane growth zone into north soc, as instructed by insurance company clauses, it was lovely to have nearly the entire marina to myself. there were 9 people who remained in barra for summer 2015.

the storm front pictured is patricia, taken by an observer in barrio nuevo. the airplane wing shot shows how protected we were. the stormy out the window shot was during first haf of storm, before eye got to us, when the winds were gentle--only around 100 or so.... didnt get interesting until after eye passed thru...then it was a total white out. very noisey and white. bubba was scared. we were in side a hotel room --it was safer on boat.
patricia is still strongest cane in epac ever in history. awesome storm.

most cane holes are mangroves and other baffled areas.. you will see by the pix i posted what does constitute a good cane hole.mangroves and marina. always know how your winds will come-- from where and strength.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	12219390_1490280294609240_3188220464224463809_n.jpg
Views:	75
Size:	137.9 KB
ID:	128979   Click image for larger version

Name:	12032283_1061349377210586_7206090683180376553_n.jpg
Views:	82
Size:	26.9 KB
ID:	128981  

Click image for larger version

Name:	12115925_1057820314230159_3872687259979875761_n.jpg
Views:	79
Size:	37.0 KB
ID:	128982  
Attached Images
 
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2016, 12:29   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 332
Re: What to do in case of a storm

What to do in case of a storm?

Call in sick.
__________________
jmschmidt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2016, 12:36   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,105
Re: What to do in case of a storm

There are no good answers to the OP question. Any solution, beyond selling the boat quickly, or hauling to a hurricane proof storage shed, will be fraught with problems. In any event, best not to stay with the boat, unless you are at sea.
__________________
reed1v is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2016, 13:26   #24
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 5,373
Re: What to do in case of a storm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
What you do is watch the news reports of the storm on TV..... because you used your head and are completely out of the hurricane zone during hurricane season.
Watching the feather merchants on TV is useless. Here in the states NOAA has a decent hurricane sight.
__________________
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2016, 02:45   #25
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cruising Indian Ocean / Red Sea - home is Zimbabwe
Boat: V45
Posts: 1,273
Re: What to do in case of a storm

Hi Zeehag - I'm struggling with parts of this; 'once a cane grows'?



Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
on the other side, where we really get canes and tropical storms on a regular basis all summer long --i remain with my boat. there is nothing like tropical summer between storms. beautiful. as we get 19-21named events forming in a normal year, this is awesome. very wet and lovely.
some leave boats in an allegedly approved marina. haha ha ha is easier to do that here as there are true hurricane hole marinas in pacific coastal mexico. sure we get hit-- big deal. i got it from patricia, the strongest ever cane in epac basin. many run to alleged safe zones, wherein, once a cane grows, the winds are more extreme than where i have been summering, in the cane growth zone.

my friends in caribbean sail to safer areas for the storms then sail more after.
with so few storms forming in the atlantic basin and caribbean, that is do able, heck, we can do that here, even with storms forming weekly and as they see fit. folks in mexico run in a migratory fashion to san carlos and guaymas, way up into the sea of cortez, considering that safe., i donot.
i refuse to go to desert to a place wherein the winds will be ferocious just to stow a boat for 5 months of the year when only a few days are impaired due to extreme storm situations. others have other ideas. study your weather patterns and go from there.
__________________
Bulawayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2016, 05:15   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 253
Re: What to do in case of a storm

In the Caribbean, there are Mangrove holes on several Islands. My favorites include Coral Bay in St. John, and Benner Bay in St. Thomas. Both are isolated from all sides which is essential in surviving a big blow. Boats start pulling in and setting up 48 hrs or so before the storm to set up. Remove your sails, solar panels, tie up wind generators and secure everything on deck before setting out your anchors and tying off to the mangrove roots complete with your chafing gear. I use reinforced pvc hose in the water because the rode slides easier in it when wet, and fire hose on deck be a use it has proven to be quite robust during canes. As Hudson Force pointed out, shallow depth is important because you're not going to be able to run your anchors out more than 80- 100 ft because of all of the other boats and there just isn't enough room to do so. Danforths and Fortress anchors are my preference and marking your anchors with a jug is necessary to let others know where you have stationed your gear. I prefer these two holes because you are in 8 -10' of water with a mud bottom. Last year, there were two small TS that blew through and we chose to ride them out in the lagoon in St. Maarten, but I'd never go in there for a major storm. IMO, the holding is not very good with a lot of grassy sand on the Dutch side and way too many crappy boats with absentee boat owners just waiting to break loose and take you with them as has happened there on many occasions.
The Marinas In Benner Bay; IBY, and Compass Point close 48 hrs. before a named storm. No one in or out. They then require all boats to pull out 6-10' away from the docks before securing double lines on four sides. This is a requirement, and if the owners don't do it, the marina will and charge the boat owners a sizable amount for their trouble. The boats are then all tied together after each is secured causing a rafting effect so as "for one to go we all go" effect. However, during Hurricane Marilyn, an entire dock broke free from Compass point and took out all of the oats on the other side of the lagoon at Trawlers in Paradise.
We rode out Hurricane Ike on Providenciales in 2008. Cat 5. I was on the hard during this storm and we drove down 5/8" X 6' rebar with 4 welded plates on the bottom forming a spear point. we drove them down using a large millwalkee hammer drill set to just hammer. We then welded a metal loop welded to the top to secure 4" Rachet straps to. We drove three on each side of the boat and ran the straps through the toe rail suppers to the other side so as to strap her down to the jack stands and keel blocks. The only reason we did not sustain damage from this storm was be case we got lucky, and the sailboats on either side of us fell away from us. There was a 38 Luhrs in front totally upside down. The owner of the Luhrs was making fun of us while we were setting up saying "They have never done this before" and No I did not get even after the fact. In hind sight, I would have rather been on the water in Sellers Pond rather than on the hard there. I have several videos on YouTube but too difficult to post from my phone. Just search videos for Jsta_Rebel if you wanna have a look.
BTW, other than Ike, I choose to stay aboard. I don't recommend one way or the other, but my personal belief is that it's all luck, and you can get killed on land as easy on your boat. I just know from experience that the boat can't care for herself when it comes to storm surge which is what sinks many boats during a storm.
__________________
Jsta_Rebel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2016, 06:00   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 909
Re: What to do in case of a storm

Stay near the equator to 12 degrees North or South.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
tuffr2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2016, 06:53   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 253
Re: What to do in case of a storm

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffr2 View Post
Stay near the equator to 12 degrees North or South.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
There are people like myself who unfortunately can't do this. I work throughout the Bahama and leeward islands, so we have to deal with the storms as best as we can.
__________________
Jsta_Rebel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2016, 06:58   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Boat: Fisher 34
Posts: 3
Re: What to do in case of a storm

Out of curiosity and to better understand some texts: would in the southern hemisphere the wind shifts be called differently?
I'd expect (for the symmetry sake) veering wind to shift counter-clockwise in the southern hemisphere - is that true?
__________________
olddog57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2016, 07:03   #30
cruiser

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Easton, MD
Boat: Catalina 22 Capri
Posts: 929
Re: What to do in case of a storm

If you have to ask, you can pretty much just bend over and kiss it goodbye.
__________________

__________________
kmacdonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: Storm jib and storm trisail and anchors over40pirate Classifieds Archive 2 30-08-2015 19:44
For Sale: Storm Staysail / Storm Jib riggear Classifieds Archive 4 21-10-2013 13:37
For Sale: Dry Case Waterproof Phone, Camera & MP3 Case - NEW off-the-grid Classifieds Archive 2 11-07-2012 14:58
Storm Jibs - Hoisting / Dousing with Sleeve, Parallel Beads or a Storm Bag ? Chantal Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 3 30-10-2011 11:42
For Sale: Sea Anchor, Storm Tri-Sail, Storm Jib Gailwind Classifieds Archive 15 24-10-2010 06:24


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:48.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.