What kind of sailboat should I buy?

[MichiganMikeUK]

I'll be mainly on Lake St. Clair or Lake Erie.

[ctl411]

With our kids we found it much easier to take care of them on a "slower motion" boat. Our 37 cutter was much better than our 30. Not so much the length but weight 18000 vs 7800. That said we did Holland to Leland and back in a week on the 30.
Kids were 18 months old at the time. Yours is old enough that I had ours on the wheel while raising lowering sails. Lots of good boats in your price range around the lakes.

[RicknSue]

Originally Posted by MichiganMikeUK

I'll be mainly on Lake St. Clair or Lake Erie.

Ok, so this adds some difference over Lake Michigan ( for example).
If you are looking in the 30ish range (doable with your budget), it's not going to be on a trailer, so you have to look at dockage. Also, the west end of Lake Erie is SHALLOW in spots, so that can limit you a bit. The current in the Detroit river can be something that can work against you at times also, so if you are planning on running between the lakes, you need to make sure that the engine can handle it ok, so inboard for sure!!

Let me know if I can help.

[MichiganMikeUK]

Thanks, that's helpful. I may eventually try to make Kelly's island or PIB, but mostly I'll be tooling around LSC. After conversations with the boss, I'm struggling to decide between power and sail now.

She wants the boat mainly to "relax on" and enjoy the water, but from my short experiences on a racing crew, sailing isn't relaxing. Though I do love it.

Trying to reconcile how I'm going to operate the gear with one 5 year old and a woman that wants to spend boat time relaxing, and not trimming sails, etc. Also, she doesn't have a complexion that does well in a lot of sun. Please advise!

[mottseng]

"What kind of sailboat should I buy"......have you started looking at sailboat ad websites? You crew on a C&C 34 (great boat) what do your fellow crew members say? There are plenty of C&Cs and CSs around that would fit the bill. Use a spreadsheet to track boat prices and criteria. Go and physically look at as many boats as you can.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Hello again Micihigan Mike.

I just read most of the recent comments.
You got some good advice from sailors who know those lakes.

I don't recall seeing a budget mentioned. But I am assuming for a first boat you are likely wanting to spend as little as possible while trying sailing as a family.

I did a quick "advanced search" on Yachtworld, using the parameters of:

Sailboat
Used
Up to 35 feet
Less than $11,000
Michigan as the location (you can pick states or regions).

Click this link to see what Yachtworld has for that search:
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...dedSelected=-1

While there are several boats from which you could choose, here is one I think it's the description of a good starter boat and one I think would be a good fit for you, the wife, and child, and possibly with other folks daysailing.

This boat is older than some, but if you look closely it has some newer things that are important, such as sails, and it has a Yanmar diesel inboard engine (this is good) and it does have an enclosed marine head (toilet, and not a porta potty) and it has a nice looking interior.

And, it is less than $5,000 and the owner is open to offers!

From what we can see in the photos, it looks clean and nicely maintained. Better than most at that price point!

You mentioned your wife does not do well in the sun. In the Great Lakes, with cooler water, it is likely you and others will be wearing long sleeved garments comfortably on the cooler waters. But, another nice thing about THIS boat is that it appears to have a Bimini canvas over the cockpit, which will provide some shade.

Take a look. And perhaps the other CF members here will look too, and add their observations too in comments below.

Note, this boat is listed at a price that is half the asking price of comparable boats in that size, and as such may sell quickly, because of the new sails etc. still, it is prudent to have a knowledgeable sailor look over the boat, and even better to pay for a professional boat surveyor to look it over too, though many experienced boaters would not pay for a survey for a boat at this low price point.

Here is the boat.

1978 Columbia 8.3 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

This is a lot of boat at this price. Here is a copy of the ad text:

The Columbia 8.3M is a Sloop Rig, Long Fin Keel boat with a Skeg Rudder with Tiller Steering. The Bulkheads and Companionway Ladder are Teak as are the Handrails. The Interior Sleeps 4 in a V-Berth and Port and Starboard Settees. The Enclosed Head features a Marine Toilet with Holding Tank. The Galley has SS Sink, Ice Box and Stove. The Cabin has 6' 1" Headroom. Folding prop, New Mainsail (two seasons), Nice 155 Headsail, 3/4 oz Seaker, A Kite Spyn and Storm Jib. Yes, it is a Diesel!


Yanmar diesel
Folding prop
Fin keel
VC-17 bottom paint
Raytheon boat speed
Standard Horizon depth
Stand Horizon VHF
Battery charger
Marine head
Schaefer furling
North mainsail (2006)
Banks 155% (1999)
3/4 oz A sail
Storm jib
Alcohol stove
Bimini
Sail cover
Cockpit cushions

[MichiganMikeUK]

WOW. that is a great looking boat. I had written off anything less than 30', as I hear they are a bit cramped. But this one looks quite spacious. This price would leave me room to invest in autopilot.

What is your opinion on the relaxation factor? Will weekend sailing afford a lot of "downtime," or will the wife and i constantly be attending to the sheets, lines, blocks, etc.? Would a center cockpit be easier to sail with a small to non-existent crew, or are those mostly installed on bigger boats?

[Restlessone]

Catalina makes a nice comfortable boat for the great lakes. They have nice roomy cabins and can be bought relatively cheaply. Because so many have been made there is always lots for sale.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by MichiganMikeUK

WOW. that is a great looking boat. I had written off anything less than 27', as I hear they are a bit cramped. But this one looks quite spacious. This price would leave me room to invest in autopilot.

What is your opinion on the relaxation factor? Will weekend sailing afford a lot of "downtime," or will the wife and i constantly be attending to the sheets, lines, blocks, etc.? Would a center cockpit be easier to sail with a small to non-existent crew, or are those mostly installed on bigger boats?

Quick and dirty answers and these are opinions, so take them with a splash of salt (or fresh) water:

If you have a bigger budget, buy bigger. What is your budget or what is the maximum ASKING PRICE LIMIT you will consider. Name that or we are all wasting time.

I like center cockpit boats, but on smaller boats they look odd (ugly to me) and I have seen many I would not own just because they looked so badly designed. I would not get hung up on the CC concept at this point in your sailing.

If you want safety aboard your boat, ANY boat with newbie sailors and a small child, I recommend the following MUST HAVES:

1. Buy nice easy to wear PFDs and REQUIRE that everyone on the boat wear them, including yourself (set a good example) and your friends. Spend enough money to get good ones for everyone. Most people prefer to wear inflatables, and those can be purchased for about $80 for nice auto inflating models. There are very good designs for children too. Avoid the cheap stuff! The more expensive ones are generally more comfortable to wear. Try them on. Don't skimp.

2. Put lifeline netting on the lifelines. This is inexpensive and easy. You can add it yourself.

3. Buy a tether for your child. Hook it on whenever on deck of the boat whenever the boat is moving under power or sail. Make that a Rule of the Boat and stick to it.

Have fun!

And remember this, the CONDITION of the boat is more important than the year of the boats build. The boat I linked appears to be in outstanding condition for its age and price point. Still, it is wise to have an experienced surveyor or sailor look at the boat for you.

[ctl411]

Sailboat is more relaxing than power unless the powerboat is stopped.
You are day sailing/cruising with your family not racing. Set course trim for that sit back relax let the kid steer or set autopilot. The boats you will be looking at most likely won't have much to adjust anyway.
My wife is fair skinned also hats and sunblock take care of that.
Main sheet and winches by the helm would be good but not absolutely necessary.

[MichiganMikeUK]

My price range would be up to $15,000. Wife loves the teak look, dark painted hull. I'm crewing on a 34 c&c right now, and while it's a great racer, it's a bit worn around the edges. The boat above is exactly the type of boat that would make the wife forget about the ease of a powerboat.

I served in the navy, and definitely know the dangers of falling overboard. Thank you for the advice on the PFDs---not something to skimp on, for sure.

For up to $15k, what should I expect? autopilot, new electronics, inboard diesel? Also want to make sure the boat can be counted as a residence for tax purposes.

[ctl411]

Oh on center cockpit, the size boat you are looking at aft cockpit is the way to go.
Short of leaving and coming back to the dock your wife could do nothing if she chooses to. Lots of down time cruising/sailing for all. You will only be going a few knots lol.

[Mainebristol]

Just to add, you mentioned an autopilot. Raymarine makes a nice wheel pilot that you could (and should) install yourself. About $1,500. The more maintenance you do yourself, the more self-reliant you will be as a sailor. Incidentally, that boat could be easily run by one person with a little bit of experience. Chances are, all lines lead to the cockpit, and if they are not, that can be arranged, with some effort.

Sounds like your wife is a little iffy about all this. For that all-important first summer, pick your days carefully. As you know from racing, a sailboat is designed to heel more and more as the wind blows harder. Not everybody is comfortable with this concept. Boat angle can be reduced by reducing sail area, but probably best to stick to ten knots or less of wind for awhile. I have seen a new hand crouched on the high side of the cabin top, bourbon in hand, trembling.

Steady Hand is giving you good advice.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by MichiganMikeUK

My price range would be up to $15,000. Wife loves the teak look, dark painted hull. I'm crewing on a 34 c&c right now, and while it's a great racer, it's a bit worn around the edges. The boat above is exactly the type of boat that would make the wife forget about the ease of a powerboat.

I served in the navy, and definitely know the dangers of falling overboard. Thank you for the advice on the PFDs---not something to skimp on, for sure.

For up to $15k, what should I expect? autopilot, new electronics, inboard diesel? Also want to make sure the boat can be counted as a residence for tax purposes.

Frankly, I would JUMP on the boat I linked, as a first boat. Save the rest of your budget and use it later for boat toys, for maintenance, or....for a second boat in the future!

First, get your wife and kid hooked on the sailing!

And if they really like the small boat on the lake, take some of that $10k you saved and take the wife to the Caribbean for a week long charter on a bigger and newer boat! That's what I would do. Fun and will likely make a big positive impression on the wife, for the future boat.

Or save that money for kids college. Not as much fun but more practical.

[Mainebristol]

If you do check out that boat, most alcohol stoves are fine, but years ago Kenyon made a pressurized alcohol stove. They are pretty bad, in my experience. No biggy. New stoves, much safer, are around $200 or so. Everything else sounds normal and good, particularly the sails (BIG deal). Condition, however, is everything.