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Old 10-06-2015, 16:15   #316
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
Whales on the surface and shipping containers are hazards to navigation, but that doesn't justify you choosing to join their ranks by not keeping a proper lookout.

I do agree with you that collisions are rare, but that doesn't justify not keeping a lookout for anyone. I'd be perfectly happy to let you roll those lucky collision avoiding dice of yours all day long....if it were only YOU who stood to be injured or killed, but that's not how it is. Colreg rule 5 still requires "at all times" that a proper lookout be kept. It stands to reason that the odds of 2 boats colliding with each other goes down exponentially when both are keeping a proper lookout, you are depending entirely on luck when neither is keeping a proper lookout, and safety is somewhat degraded when only one vessel is keeping a proper lookout.

You ARE saying that you are special because it is your choice to go to sea with no intention of following a rule that everyone else is expected to follow and you don't seem as enthusiastic about defending others rights to not follow the Colregs. I don't hear you arguing that it's OK for oil tankers or cargo ships or anyone else to only keep a proper watch "most of the time!" If you really were serious about "taking the best precautions you can to avoid collisions with others," you'd start by having an extra crewmember aboard to stand a proper watch while you slept. Instead, you are choosing to keep a proper lookout "most of the time" even though you can clearly read the Colreg that says "at all times."

Despite all I've written here, it's not something I stay up all night worrying about. I realize that the odds of me getting hit by a sleeping singlehander is slim to none. I just wish that singlehanders would have the intellectual honestly to admit right up front that what they are choosing to do DOES pose an additional danger and burden on other vessels in their area and that they just don't care. Their wish to enjoy singlehanded sailing is obviously more important to them than the safety of others they might run into while sleeping. Why not just come out and admit it and stop all this silly tap dancing around what "Every vessel shall at all times...." means.
The nicest word I can think of after your rough treatment of what I said is "incoherent". Making a point and roundly chastizing anyone who sails alone are approaches that do not play well together. Comes accross as both diatribe and prostylization.

Why not try again, accepting the fact we who sail alone cannot possibly "...at all times.." watch what's possibly happening around us while all the while planning the best we can to minimize any hazard we ourselves may present to others while off watch for any reason. You don't want to sail alone on account of your deep concern for Colreg rule 5, don't. I doubt anyone will lose any sleep over it.
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Old 10-06-2015, 16:27   #317
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

It's fantasy to think that a crew of two will keep constant watch. Lots of time will be spend hanging out below.

Some have mentioned having a nice looking female crew member. We know where some of their time would be spent and they would definitely not be on watch. (trying to fulfill the lack of in younger years maybe?)

We old single handers (I'm coastal) have a different agenda. As an explanation as to what I mean I'll just say:

Earth, wind, moon, sky, stars, tide, spirit, body, mind ........
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Old 10-06-2015, 16:27   #318
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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Their wish to enjoy singlehanded sailing is obviously more important to them than the safety of others they might run into while sleeping. Why not just come out and admit it and stop all this silly tap dancing around what "Every vessel shall at all times...." means.
Yet if my vessel were to run into yours, you also would be at fault for not taking all necessary action to avoid a collision. That's the kicker, it takes both vessels to cause a collision.

Your odds of getting hit by a sleeping single hander is about like winning the lottery. Not going to happen.
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Old 10-06-2015, 17:31   #319
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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Yet if my vessel were to run into yours, you also would be at fault for not taking all necessary action to avoid a collision. That's the kicker, it takes both vessels to cause a collision.

Your odds of getting hit by a sleeping single hander is about like winning the lottery. Not going to happen.
As I mentioned in the post just above, I fully realize that the odds of getting hit by a singlehander are slim (but it's happened before and will happen again), and I think we've covered that bit about it taking two inadequate lookouts to allow a collision and no-one is arguing that point. The reality is that nobody is attentive 100% of the time and any of us can get momentarily distracted or have our vision obscured or have a mechanical/electrical malfunction that impairs their ability to detect other boats around them, or have to visit the head, etc., but if everyone goes to sea intending to and attempts to obey rule 5, it's unlikely enough that a collision will happen because of the very long odds against two watchkeepers in the same area, despite their best intentions, becoming distracted at the same time. But if some boats skippers decide that they don't even have to post anyone on watch for periods of time longer than a momentary distraction such as those I've mentioned, then they are depending on others to avoid them while they take a "time out." No other types of ocean going vessels are allowed to take a time out from watch keeping, so why should small boat sailors be any different? Are we really that "special" that we don't have to obey the rules everyone else must obey? Part of the responsibility involved in operating any moving vehicle is to watch where you are going so you don't injure yourself or someone else or damage their property. Singlehanded sailors don't get to declare themselves exempt from this responsibility just because it's inconvenient for them.

I realize this isn't covered in the Colregs, but I think a reasonable compromise would be for singlehanders to heave-to whenever they want to get some sleep, or if their boat won't do that, then slow to minimum speed for steerageway. At least then, there would be virtually no chance of them hitting anyone else hard enough to sink them. It's not as good as "at all times keeping a proper watch," but it's better than blindly t-boning someone at 7 knots some dark night.
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Old 10-06-2015, 17:42   #320
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

The good news for solo sailors (and those worried they may harm their own boat) is that if you smoke enough methamphetamine you can both stay awake for a week and be paranoid about everything.... Including collision, zombie attack and alien abduction.

Apparently......

(And mid ocean perfectly legal)
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Old 10-06-2015, 17:42   #321
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
As I mentioned in the post just above, I fully realize that the odds of getting hit by a singlehander are slim (but it's happened before and will happen again), and I think we've covered that bit about it taking two inadequate lookouts to allow a collision and no-one is arguing that point. The reality is that nobody is attentive 100% of the time and any of us can get momentarily distracted or have our vision obscured or have a mechanical/electrical malfunction that impairs their ability to detect other boats around them, or have to visit the head, etc., but if everyone goes to sea intending to and attempts to obey rule 5, it's unlikely enough that a collision will happen because of the very long odds against two watchkeepers in the same area, despite their best intentions, becoming distracted at the same time. But if some boats skippers decide that they don't even have to post anyone on watch for periods of time longer than a momentary distraction such as those I've mentioned, then they are depending on others to avoid them while they take a "time out." No other types of ocean going vessels are allowed to take a time out from watch keeping, so why should small boat sailors be any different? Are we really that "special" that we don't have to obey the rules everyone else must obey? Part of the responsibility involved in operating any moving vehicle is to watch where you are going so you don't injure yourself or someone else or damage their property. Singlehanded sailors don't get to declare themselves exempt from this responsibility just because it's inconvenient for them.

I realize this isn't covered in the Colregs, but I think a reasonable compromise would be for singlehanders to heave-to whenever they want to get some sleep, or if their boat won't do that, then slow to minimum speed for steerageway. At least then, there would be virtually no chance of them hitting anyone else hard enough to sink them. It's not as good as "at all times keeping a proper watch," but it's better than blindly t-boning someone at 7 knots some dark night.
Actually commercial seaman have been taking a break from constant look out by sight and sound since before ECS. On open water there is often no watchman, just a navigator who divides his time between many things, only one of which is looking out the window.

And a major part of which is playing minesweeper, solitaire and flirting on Facebook.

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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Old 10-06-2015, 17:46   #322
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
As I mentioned in the post just above, I fully realize that the odds of getting hit by a singlehander are slim (but it's happened before and will happen again), and I think we've covered that bit about it taking two inadequate lookouts to allow a collision and no-one is arguing that point. The reality is that nobody is attentive 100% of the time and any of us can get momentarily distracted or have our vision obscured or have a mechanical/electrical malfunction that impairs their ability to detect other boats around them, or have to visit the head, etc., but if everyone goes to sea intending to and attempts to obey rule 5, it's unlikely enough that a collision will happen because of the very long odds against two watchkeepers in the same area, despite their best intentions, becoming distracted at the same time. But if some boats skippers decide that they don't even have to post anyone on watch for periods of time longer than a momentary distraction such as those I've mentioned, then they are depending on others to avoid them while they take a "time out." No other types of ocean going vessels are allowed to take a time out from watch keeping, so why should small boat sailors be any different? Are we really that "special" that we don't have to obey the rules everyone else must obey? Part of the responsibility involved in operating any moving vehicle is to watch where you are going so you don't injure yourself or someone else or damage their property. Singlehanded sailors don't get to declare themselves exempt from this responsibility just because it's inconvenient for them.
Where have you seen anyone who sails alone claim they are "exempt" from any Colreg?

Quote:
I realize this isn't covered in the Colregs, but I think a reasonable compromise would be for singlehanders to heave-to whenever they want to get some sleep, or if their boat won't do that, then slow to minimum speed for steerageway. At least then, there would be virtually no chance of them hitting anyone else hard enough to sink them. It's not as good as "at all times keeping a proper watch," but it's better than blindly t-boning someone at 7 knots some dark night.
We do, depending upon our best judgment of which technique to employ given the particular set of circumstances. And as far as you went before suggesting any one of us would t-bone someone at 7 knots some dark night, you were doing good.
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Old 10-06-2015, 17:56   #323
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

These guys will be trusting electronics for watch keeping;

Rolls-Royce Drone Ships Challenge $375 Billion Industry: Freight - Bloomberg Business

Interesting to see how this will play with Colregs.

What do you call 1 less crew than single handing?

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Old 10-06-2015, 17:59   #324
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
The good news for solo sailors (and those worried they may harm their own boat) is that if you smoke enough methamphetamine you can both stay awake for a week and be paranoid about everything.... Including collision, zombie attack and alien abduction.

Apparently......

(And mid ocean perfectly legal)
Good lord, a possible Zombie attack is why I own a boat....
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Old 10-06-2015, 18:04   #325
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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Good lord, a possible Zombie attack is why I own a boat....
I don't know. Where I am, come summer there's a hell of a lot of Zombies in boats around.
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Old 10-06-2015, 18:06   #326
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

Singlehanding has contributed to collisions at sea. But singlehanders also contributed to the safety of others at sea. Twice even in my short sailing career I've been the only boat in range of a vessel in distress.

You do everything in your power to make your vessel as safe and seaworthy as possible-- is that a good def of seamanship? Not everyone has the luxury of always sailing with crew.

If I'm ever that vessel in distress, it means nothing how many crew are onboard the nearest vessel.

We're all in it together.
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Old 10-06-2015, 18:10   #327
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

Someone is living in fantasyland. Ships keep radar watches for other ships, counting on AIS and radar to alarm well in advance; they aren't watching for us. Some years ago a friend of mine, a singlehander <gasp> was becalmed SW of the Canaries without an engine when he saw a container ship coming over the horizon - straight towards him. As the ship neared my friend repeatedly hailed her on VHF to no avail - no one was listening. He was helpless as the ship ran him down, cracking open the hull and shipping water. Fortunately they did respond to his Mayday a few minutes later and came back for him. Boat and cat lost. I don't think the ship suffered any damage, aside from having to pay for the loss.

If you want the seas to be safer you aren't going to get there by beating up on single-handers, or inattentive watchkeepers for that matter. Ships are counting on their AIS and radar alarms going off in order to avoid collisions - often no one is even on the bridge - so register and install an AIS transceiver. IMHO it should be required for all passagemaking. Give up on someone else's radar seeing you; in 2-3m seas your reflection will be lost in the sea clutter on most ships (but do carry a reflector - everything helps). Do run your own radar with a guard zone/alarm, but make the interval short as ships may not trigger the alarm before 5 miles or so in rough seas. And do these two things whether solo or several people on watch - the fallibility of watchkeepers is astounding - and you will be far safer than by banning all solo sailors.

Greg
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Old 10-06-2015, 18:18   #328
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

Jeez Lads!

Switch on yer AIS and watch for mine. I'll be in my bunk for 7 hours straight and have the engine running at 12 knots and trying to do a RADAR assisted collision at any passing vessel.

Other than that, I will be keeping a more than watchful eye on proceedings, sleeping in 30 minute bursts when the coast is clear and generally trying to stay alive and out the way of huge cargo vessels with a crew of 8 and no one on watch. Probably registered in Liberia.

I get no respect! Just told I should not be out there, Im a hazard to marine traffic.

When did the car pooling lane transfer to boating? Great! now I have to have the girlfriend back and witness a rerun of an incident. Put her on watch only to find she switched the volume down because it disturbed her reading, and did not alert her to the vessel one half mile on the stern of us.

I single handed the rest of the trip. Much safer.

Arrrgh!! and now you tell me a zombie attack can happen! Nothing is easy anymore.
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Old 10-06-2015, 18:20   #329
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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Good lord, a possible Zombie attack is why I own a boat....
Exactly why you should read For Those in Peril on the Sea. Great book. Read it three times now. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS.../metamythic-20

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Old 10-06-2015, 18:46   #330
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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