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Old 09-06-2015, 17:44   #271
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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Greg- I have had exactly the same thing happen at Neah bay! How do you do the stretch between Astoria and Neah single handed? Where do you feel comfortable enough to rest?
In that case the engine was lost within hours of rounding Cape Flattery, with no chance for repair at sea. Entering the Quillayute River (La Push) under sail would be insane - it is very marginal under power with a keelboat's draft, and too tight to tack. Gray's Harbor is possible to enter under sail with the right tidal conditions, but getting into the marina at Westport would require a tow, and then only near slack. Given that the engine would still need repair to continue, I decided to go nonstop Neah to Astoria, arriving at the bar at low slack and making Astoria at high slack (tow required to enter the west basin). It worked out well but was of course tiring. This was in the days of Loran, and I didn't have radar (and without the engine I wouldn't have had the power to run the radar for long anyway). In those days a run along the coast often encountered fog, and navigating often meant following the depth sounder. Collision avoidance? Rabbit's foot or similar.

In better times I recommend a stop in Grays Harbor for a rest if shorthanded, then non-stop to Neah Bay. Quillayute is the only other possibility, which might be interesting under power in settled weather, the right tidal conditions, and current knowledge on channel depths. Otherwise give it a wide berth. I have only done the Grays Harbor to Neah Bay trip solo once; the Astoria-Grays Harbor only with crew, but that was before I went cruising. I wouldn't hesitate now, weather permitting.

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Old 09-06-2015, 18:08   #272
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

Boy is there a lot of nonsense here. You may be worried by the supposed risks me and my small boat may add, but it is nothing compared to what is already out there. It makes no sense to require a minimum crew unless there are also minimum standards on crew training and experience (and I do indeed mean to include the wealthy retirees who think they can just buy a nice boat and take off without having spent the time and effort to acquire that training and experience, and who consider crewing beneath themselves - how can you learn without that experience?).

I happened to be crossing the English Channel the day the SS Norway t-boned an unlimited tonnage container carrier; the accident happened when the Norway was departing the Thames and the container ship was outbound in the TSS. Both ships were well staffed and equiped with multiple radars, there was shore-based radar overseeing the TSS to boot. If you wish to worry about something then worry about what passes for competence in the "professional" world aboard these massive ships. And don't get me started about Hazelwood and Schettino...

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Old 09-06-2015, 18:18   #273
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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And yet, in my observation, it seems the majority of solo sailors out there tend to be those sailing the smallest boats...

:-)
This is the first I've heard that a singlehanded sailor may cause a significant risk of harm to others on the high seas as opposed to the risk potentially created to him/herself. Go figure. As others have said, maybe it's just the idea of risk generally that some find objectionable. If so, then maybe ocean sailing in small recreational vessels (as well as embarrassing easily) isn't the right fit for some.
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Old 09-06-2015, 18:23   #274
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

Saleen given your approach you may be sailing single handed sooner than you think!!!
After reading your post I laughed bravado HA HA who?
You may be proud of single handing your investment back to home port after smoking hot has thrown up for 4 days and is flying back home with another PILOT! S IT HAPPENS
and yes I'm mad at myself for reading this thread and commenting but it took too long to read and type this so here
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Old 09-06-2015, 18:26   #275
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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If your human on watch can determine the course, speed, and vessel type of a boat in the middle of the night from 25 miles away in the fog or rain with visibility of 1/4 mile I'll agree with you.
ONLY a human using electronic tools to determine the course, speed, and vessel type, and then considering the appropriate action and initiating that action will successfully avoid a collision. Having the raw data about another vessel does no-one any good if the human who might interpret the data and take appropriate action is asleep at the switch.
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Old 09-06-2015, 18:29   #276
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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and yes I'm mad at myself for reading this thread and commenting but it took too long to read and type this so here
Don't be mad at yourself, no one saw you read it You can just say it didn't happen.
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Old 09-06-2015, 18:45   #277
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

BUT I know I did it
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Old 09-06-2015, 18:48   #278
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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Saleen given your approach you may be sailing single handed sooner than you think!!!
After reading your post I laughed bravado HA HA who?
You may be proud of single handing your investment back to home port after smoking hot has thrown up for 4 days and is flying back home with another PILOT! S IT HAPPENS
and yes I'm mad at myself for reading this thread and commenting but it took too long to read and type this so here
That's a pretty funny post.

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Old 09-06-2015, 19:04   #279
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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ONLY a human using electronic tools to determine the course, speed, and vessel type, and then considering the appropriate action and initiating that action will successfully avoid a collision. Having the raw data about another vessel does no-one any good if the human who might interpret the data and take appropriate action is asleep at the switch.
Obviously, yes. But keeping a proper lookout using all available means also includes remembering to set the alarm!
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Old 09-06-2015, 19:05   #280
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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ONLY a human using electronic tools to determine the course, speed, and vessel type, and then considering the appropriate action and initiating that action will successfully avoid a collision. Having the raw data about another vessel does no-one any good if the human who might interpret the data and take appropriate action is asleep at the switch.
Your forgetting that both vessels are required to take action to avoid collisions. So it's never one boats fault. Even if they are asleep the other boat which we assume is fully staffed, is required to take all action required to avoid a collision.

Even boats with 3 and 4 crew get into trouble quite a bit. That human error thingy bites everyone's butt.. I do not think a experienced single hander gets into any more collisions then crewed boats. I suspect Single handers get in far far fewer.

Generally both vessels will be at fault in a collision as its the responsibility of both vessels to avoid collisions.

BTW Wrongs boat is a small, very seaworthy vessel. Mine is a giant at 34 feet in comparison.

That coast guard station San Francisco does not stop the singlehanded transpac, pretty much says singlehanding is not against the law, least wise in the good o' USA. They should know as they have the guns.
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Old 09-06-2015, 19:16   #281
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

Does anyone know for certain that operating a vessel single handed, alone, solo, is illegal ANYWHERE in the world?

If you know of a place can you find the legislation applicable so the rest of us can read it.
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Old 09-06-2015, 19:54   #282
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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Your forgetting that both vessels are required to take action to avoid collisions. So it's never one boats fault. Even if they are asleep the other boat which we assume is fully staffed, is required to take all action required to avoid a collision.

Even boats with 3 and 4 crew get into trouble quite a bit. That human error thingy bites everyone's butt.. I do not think a experienced single hander gets into any more collisions then crewed boats. I suspect Single handers get in far far fewer.

Generally both vessels will be at fault in a collision as its the responsibility of both vessels to avoid collisions.

BTW Wrongs boat is a small, very seaworthy vessel. Mine is a giant at 34 feet in comparison.

That coast guard station San Francisco does not stop the singlehanded transpac, pretty much says singlehanding is not against the law, least wise in the good o' USA. They should know as they have the guns.
Of course both vessels are obliged to do whatever is necessary to avoid collisions. I didn't forget that for a minute. But how is it fair for one of the two involved to deliberately put himself in a state (asleep) where everyone else in his area must do all of the collision avoidance?

What makes you say that singlehanders get in "far fewer collisions" than crewed boats? Of course there are far, far fewer of them so I guess it's true in a literal sense, but I think it's pretty clear that a boat with no-one at the helm or on watch is much less likely to maneuver to avoid a collision than a boat with someone on watch and at the helm.

You're right that human error thingy is always out there trying to get us, so how does it make sense to exempt a certain class of boats crew from even being aware of what is going on around them or from taking collision avoidance measures that are required and expected of everyone else?

I'm not a lawyer and am not an expert on maritime law either, but the failure of one law enforcement entity to enforce a law doesn't make that law void. It's not exactly a Supreme Court ruling! But to me, even more important than the legal question is the moral one. We're all out there and are all equally obligated to keep a constant watch to make sure we don't run into each other and that seems right to me. How does any one group of sailors get to declare that they are so "special" that the rules requiring a constant watch doesn't apply to them, just because they prefer sailing by themselves?
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Old 09-06-2015, 20:45   #283
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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Of course both vessels are obliged to do whatever is necessary to avoid collisions. I didn't forget that for a minute. But how is it fair for one of the two involved to deliberately put himself in a state (asleep) where everyone else in his area must do all of the collision avoidance?

What makes you say that singlehanders get in "far fewer collisions" than crewed boats? Of course there are far, far fewer of them so I guess it's true in a literal sense, but I think it's pretty clear that a boat with no-one at the helm or on watch is much less likely to maneuver to avoid a collision than a boat with someone on watch and at the helm.

You're right that human error thingy is always out there trying to get us, so how does it make sense to exempt a certain class of boats crew from even being aware of what is going on around them or from taking collision avoidance measures that are required and expected of everyone else?

I'm not a lawyer and am not an expert on maritime law either, but the failure of one law enforcement entity to enforce a law doesn't make that law void. It's not exactly a Supreme Court ruling! But to me, even more important than the legal question is the moral one. We're all out there and are all equally obligated to keep a constant watch to make sure we don't run into each other and that seems right to me. How does any one group of sailors get to declare that they are so "special" that the rules requiring a constant watch doesn't apply to them, just because they prefer sailing by themselves?
I can see the point your making. I'm thinking it's largely hypothetical though as we read of very few solo sailors running into things.

And your whole second paragraph premise is that there is a 'Law' somewhere that prohibits single handed / solo sailors. I don't think there is, but regardless, in order for the 'supreme court' to make a ruling, there has to be a law that has been transgressed. In most places, there just does not seem to be any laws that prohibit solo sailors or that interpret Colreg 5 as being an absolute. Might be wrong on that latter one, but happy to be corrected with proof of it.
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Old 09-06-2015, 23:33   #284
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What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

So just my experience, the few times I've singlehanded and slept at night, I've checked the sea room, furled sails, set adrift, hoisted lights to show the boat is underway not under command, and went to sleep, usually in the cockpit with the VHF on. Currents being what they are here you'll usually drift about 1 knot.

I kind of just assumed that's how everyone does it. It doesn't relieve the legal responsibility of keeping watch, but it does make it impossible to be at fault for hitting someone else at any dangerous speed, and it informs everyone else that you're not under command. It also makes you the stand-on vessel in all circumstances. I've had fishing boats pass fairly close by, but they are usually coming over to see what's going on, and I've always been awakened by their engine noise when they're close.

But I'm not on the high-seas, just offshore in SoCal with all the fisherman bobbing around and container ships. I suppose I might remain underway in the middle of the pacific at night if a radar search showed many hours of open seaway ahead.

I'm putting myself at risk doing this, but nobody else.


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Old 10-06-2015, 00:21   #285
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pirate Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

To me.. No big deal..
But to those who don't.. its like being a smoker..
We are selfish bastards intent on destroying life as we know it..
Some folks just get a kick outs stirring the ****.. facts are irrellevant
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