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Old 08-06-2015, 00:19   #151
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
It's of interest to note that in the enquiry, Jessica Watson being alone was noted as being unable to post a watch continuously die to the nature of her solo sail, but the larger commercial ship was criticised for having questionably not had someone on watch continuously. Jessica was mainly critisied for having not used 'all available means' at her disposal. In the end, the ship seemed to be more responsible for the collision than she was.

But you are right, I would not have toddled off to sleep until it was well past.
Both were well in the wrong (two wrongs do not make a right):
- They had the crew but failed to follow the requirement (and likely company policy) to maintain a watch at all times.
- She left land knowning full well that it is impossible for her to maintain a 24/7 watch.

The fact that the mistakes were made at different points in the process doesn't excuse her mistake.

Then again, did she have the ability to hold off sleep? I just did an overnight flight (can't sleep on a plane) after a full days work. After I got to the hotel, I meant to go out and get a bite to eat. 4hrs later, I woke up in the same clothes with no recollection of having gone to bed.
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Old 08-06-2015, 00:22   #152
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Will your travels bring you North? Or Northerly around Flinders, that perhaps we could meet up?
Ummm... I'm not too sure what I will be doing tomorrow, let alone a few months and a couple of passages in advance! We might well head W along the N coast on our way down if the wx was propitious, but usually truck straight down the E coast while the N'ly lasts. If the tides are right we go through the ditch, if not then around the Tasman peninsula and Storm Bay. If we go down the E coast in Dec, we will hope to come up the W coast on our return trip, thence E along the N coast. You will note a fair number of "if" clauses in that scenario...

Last April we spent a few days ducking wx at Babel Island... would have welcomed a visit then!

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 08-06-2015, 00:35   #153
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Both were well in the wrong (two wrongs do not make a right):
- They had the crew but failed to follow the requirement (and likely company policy) to maintain a watch at all times.
- She left land knowning full well that it is impossible for her to maintain a 24/7 watch.

The fact that the mistakes were made at different points in the process doesn't excuse her mistake.

Then again, did she have the ability to hold off sleep? I just did an overnight flight (can't sleep on a plane) after a full days work. After I got to the hotel, I meant to go out and get a bite to eat. 4hrs later, I woke up in the same clothes with no recollection of having gone to bed.
FWIW, if you read the accident report the "professionals" had both a mate and an AB on the bridge. They saw her green running light and decided that it was a bouy! Far too late they tried to avoid collision, knew that there had been a collision, but didn't report it or even call the skipper for something like 20 minutes. The voice recorder evidence was really damning to them.

Jessica was of course noted to not be maintaining a good watch. IIRC, she had a new AIS that she thought was working, but t was not. I don't remember the exact assignments of fault brought by the investigators, but the "professionals" copped the greater part... as they should have done.

In fact, she was lucky to come through with as little damage to self, ship and voyage as she did. I suspect that the experience was pretty sobering for her, and may have contributed to her eventual success.

Do note that this collision would likely NOT have occurred if her AIS had in fact been working... something many modern singlehanders have on board.

Jim
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Old 08-06-2015, 00:44   #154
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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Of course, you don't hear about the boats that go down mid ocean. You just don't hear from them again.
Literally dozens vanish annually, no doubt... No one even knows they've gone missing, because of course solo sailors have no friends... And, what's the point of a singlehander carrying an EPIRB anyway, when he or she can't think of anyone to list as a contact on the registration form?

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Yes, frieghters do stand watch 24/7. But if your statement is true, it's even more important for solo sailors to maintain a full time watch. Napping on the bridge 6-10stories off the water, they won't even feel it if they run you over.
Indeed, hardly a month goes by without some merchant vessel puling into port with a some solo sailor's rig dangling from the ship's anchor...

Or, so I've heard... :-)
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Old 08-06-2015, 00:53   #155
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
It might be good judgement or it might not.

It depends if you are aware and prepare for the risk and willing to take the consequences if things go badly.

Taking extra risk in return for extra accomplishment and reward is a common trade-off - from mountain climbing to finance. Some people are able to do it intelligently and prudently and some people are not.

If you want to live a life of minimum risk there are a lot of things you should not do, like take a bath (slip and fall) or drive a car or go fishing in a small boat or fly a small private plane.
Very well said

You can take that logic further -- if you don't have any tolerance for risk, then for God's sake stay off the sea altogether. Fully crewed or solo, calm weather or storm, the sea can kill you. There are more things that can go wrong out there than you can even list.

If besides single handing, sailing in storm conditions is also supposed to be "foolish and unseamanlike", then maybe sailing is not for Nimblemotors. Any long distance sailor will eventually encounter strong weather -- that's part of the deal. There are risks, but these are risks you and your boat had better be well prepared for. Intentionally sailing in strong weather is actually mandatory, as it would surely be foolish to encounter it for the first time by accident.
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Old 08-06-2015, 00:58   #156
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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Ummm... I'm not too sure what I will be doing tomorrow, let alone a few months and a couple of passages in advance! We might well head W along the N coast on our way down if the wx was propitious, but usually truck straight down the E coast while the N'ly lasts. If the tides are right we go through the ditch, if not then around the Tasman peninsula and Storm Bay. If we go down the E coast in Dec, we will hope to come up the W coast on our return trip, thence E along the N coast. You will note a fair number of "if" clauses in that scenario...

Last April we spent a few days ducking wx at Babel Island... would have welcomed a visit then!

Cheers,

Jim
Easter time I was at Waterhouse again. Would have liked an excuse to have gone a bit further. Just let me know where your coming within a day or two of the North coast again and I'll come meet you.
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Old 08-06-2015, 00:59   #157
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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I'm an airline pilot....going on 37 years. I've spent a MAJORITY of my adult "working life" alone on a layover somewhere. ( Drinking beer with crew doesn't count)

No....I'm not afraid of being alone and I'm VERY comfortable with myself. lol
I don't get the "I'm a pilot" comments on a sailing forum... Pilots are just glorified bus drivers (even the Boeing pilots)

Ohhh so impressive, you are not scared to be in a hotel room alone. Do you check-in solo or does the crew check-in together?

When push comes to shove, sure most here could solo their yachts, but a lot choose not to for one reason or another. Some will go out solo but put limitations on their sailing, be it sticking to home and familiar ports, not using the sails that they would when fully crewed or limiting the weather conditions they will sail in.

If you can't understand the "big deal" about single handling then obviously you have not done enough of it in different conditions to appreciate the challenge involved.
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Old 08-06-2015, 01:01   #158
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Both were well in the wrong (two wrongs do not make a right):
- They had the crew but failed to follow the requirement (and likely company policy) to maintain a watch at all times.
- She left land knowning full well that it is impossible for her to maintain a 24/7 watch.

The fact that the mistakes were made at different points in the process doesn't excuse her mistake.

Then again, did she have the ability to hold off sleep? I just did an overnight flight (can't sleep on a plane) after a full days work. After I got to the hotel, I meant to go out and get a bite to eat. 4hrs later, I woke up in the same clothes with no recollection of having gone to bed.
You seem to suggest that her leaving land knowing full well that she could not maintain a 24/7 watch was a 'wrong'! I known some people in the sailing world thing that about solo sailors, but I'd just point out that no where does AMSA in their official report make that distinction. In fact it seems to be the opposite and acknowledged that a solo sailor can't maintain a watch continuously. Her failing was that she did not use all the means at her disposal. That's what she was criticised for. Not for taking a nap as such.
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Old 08-06-2015, 01:02   #159
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
. . .
Jessica was of course noted to not be maintaining a good watch. IIRC, she had a new AIS that she thought was working, but t was not. I don't remember the exact assignments of fault brought by the investigators, but the "professionals" copped the greater part... as they should have done.

. . .
Do note that this collision would likely NOT have occurred if her AIS had in fact been working... something many modern singlehanders have on board.

Jim
Or her radar guard zones. Jessica screwed the pooch a bit on that one.

It is an endless debate whether long-distance single handing violates the COLREGS watchkeeping requirement or not. Peace to all the single handers on here, but I tend to think that it does.

But that should be kept in perspective. I think very few pleasure boats on multi-day passages keep a constant staring out over the bow watch. Double or even triple handed is only incrementally better than single handed, where watchkeeping is concerned. The most you can say, in most cases, is that at least someone is awake most of the time

So for both single handers and typically short crewed pleasure boats, the electronic watchkeeping aids are really key. Radar guard zones even more than AIS, since they pick up many objects (and land features ) besides ships. Team Vestas would have been saved by a properly set radar guard zone. Or even a properly set depth alarm. We were discussing that recently.
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Old 08-06-2015, 01:03   #160
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
FWIW, if you read the accident report the "professionals" had both a mate and an AB on the bridge. They saw her green running light and decided that it was a bouy! Far too late they tried to avoid collision, knew that there had been a collision, but didn't report it or even call the skipper for something like 20 minutes. The voice recorder evidence was really damning to them.

Jessica was of course noted to not be maintaining a good watch. IIRC, she had a new AIS that she thought was working, but t was not. I don't remember the exact assignments of fault brought by the investigators, but the "professionals" copped the greater part... as they should have done.

In fact, she was lucky to come through with as little damage to self, ship and voyage as she did. I suspect that the experience was pretty sobering for her, and may have contributed to her eventual success.

Do note that this collision would likely NOT have occurred if her AIS had in fact been working... something many modern singlehanders have on board.

Jim
She had it turned off! Why, was not explored that I'm aware of.
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Old 08-06-2015, 01:07   #161
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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Please enlighten me. Many here LOVE to mention that they "single hand" Well good for you.

Why do people say this all the time? Is it a form of braggadocio or what?

From what little I know, many if not most competent sailors can single hand....so what?
.........
Back on track ...I have never know any singlehanders to bang on about what they are doing... they just get out and do it....

The only ones I have know to go down the 'look at me, look at me' road have been the few pushing for some sort of record...youngest, oldest sheila, one legged tap dancers, that sort of thing... there are attention seekers in all walks of life.
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Old 08-06-2015, 01:10   #162
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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Very well said

You can take that logic further -- if you don't have any tolerance for risk, then for God's sake stay off the sea altogether. Fully crewed or solo, calm weather or storm, the sea can kill you. There are more things that can go wrong out there than you can even list.

If besides single handing, sailing in storm conditions is also supposed to be "foolish and unseamanlike", then maybe sailing is not for Nimblemotors. Any long distance sailor will eventually encounter strong weather -- that's part of the deal. There are risks, but these are risks you and your boat had better be well prepared for. Intentionally sailing in strong weather is actually mandatory, as it would surely be foolish to encounter it for the first time by accident.
The problem is not the sailing, it's all that god awful dihydrogen monoxide that's out there that makes it so damn dangerous. It's all over the bloody place..

Re your last comment. Does anyone intentionally head out in strong weather? Being unprepared is one thing but do you really propose that to gain experience one should intentionally head out in bad weather? What are you calling 'strong' by the way?
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Old 08-06-2015, 01:10   #163
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
You seem to suggest that her leaving land knowing full well that she could not maintain a 24/7 watch was a 'wrong'! I known some people in the sailing world thing that about solo sailors, but I'd just point out that no where does AMSA in their official report make that distinction. In fact it seems to be the opposite and acknowledged that a solo sailor can't maintain a watch continuously. Her failing was that she did not use all the means at her disposal. That's what she was criticised for. Not for taking a nap as such.
I tend to agree with this. I do think that it is a violation for no one to be awake on board a vessel at sea (the rules don't say "unless you're single handing"; they just say you have to keep "a constant watch"), but like all things COLREGS, this is something to be put into the perspective of all the other factors. If you have effective electronic means to detect a potential collision and you have made sure that they are working, and if you have proper procedures to get yourself awake and on deck in case of a potential collision, I think that's more or less ok. The main thing, however, is that all this should actually work, and that there's no accident. I agree that Jessica's main fault was not doing those things which would have effectively substituted the constant watch on deck.
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Old 08-06-2015, 01:10   #164
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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Literally dozens vanish annually, no doubt... No one even knows they've gone missing, because of course solo sailors have no friends... And, what's the point of a singlehander carrying an EPIRB anyway, when he or she can't think of anyone to list as a contact on the registration form?



Indeed, hardly a month goes by without some merchant vessel puling into port with a some solo sailor's rig dangling from the ship's anchor...

Or, so I've heard... :-)
I'm a bit slow on the humour side Jon. Are you being humerous
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Old 08-06-2015, 01:15   #165
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Re: What Is The Big Deal About Single Handling?

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Back on track ...I have never know any singlehanders to bang on about what they are doing... they just get out and do it....

The only ones I have know to go down the 'look at me, look at me' road have been the few pushing for some sort of record...youngest, oldest sheila, one legged tap dancers, that sort of thing... there are attention seekers in all walks of life.
yeah, i'd second that. But I don't know any single handed sailors personally. But, even on CF I have not read what the OP has suggested. But I do note when I realise someone is a solo sailor as I want to try it myself some day.
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