What is a "refit"

[contrail]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

TrentePieds was "refitted" a coupla years before she came to us. 35 grand was spent on a completely new standing rigging with all mod cons like mast furling main.

Furling didn't work right when she came to us - which is a separate argument from my innate detestation of mast furling in small boats. The stripper bars of 3 outta 4 winches pointed the wrong way and the fourt was only right - more or less - by accident. Wonder if there is a connexion? Did the "professional rigger" see the PO coming? After all, a forty-year-old "permanently reefed" boat (SA/Disp = 12.5) in the Salish Sea might have needed a new suit of sails and a few new strings, but that woulda been all. That shoulda cost maybe 10 grand.

So look not only at the extent (and cost) of the "refit" - look also at whether what was done meets the fundamental performance requirements for the water where you are going to operate the boat, and look at whether what was "refitted" suits your personal style of boat handling and your personal (your body's) requirements for comfort below.

There are many reasons why one might want to hire a "professional" to perform a given job. But it is NEVER fiscally prudent to do so UNLESS you know MORE about the job at hand than does the hiree. If you do not, you cannot monitor and supervise the "professional" adequately, and it is a given that anyone "making a living" will "jump where the fence is lowest" - using the cheapest materials he can get a way with and hurrying the job - not to mention using the cheapest labour available.

So when you get a whiff of "marketing" as you inevitably will do from boat brokers because the field is so competitive, ALWAYS assume that what the marketer claims was done was either superfluous to requirements or not done right by your lights.

Remember also that expenditures incurred by "refit" are NOT recoverable at resale time. They are simply "sunk costs" - as TrentePied's previous owner had to learn the hard way :-)!

TrentePieds

You do know that it takes seconds to change the position of the stripper bars on winches, and that not everyone likes them pointed in the same direction, because not everyone grinds their winches from the same position....not really grounds for determining if something is a refit or not.

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by redhead

Linda - "refit" is relative, just like "middle aged" can mean absolutely anything, very subjective word.

Middle age is not relative. It is always 10 years older than whatever you are. Keep in mind that someone 10 years older than you applies the same rule.

[TrentePieds]

@ contrail #16

Well, no. It takes rather more than that when the winches are Anderson 10s and 12s :-)

The strippers CAN'T be relocated just by pulling the hold-down screw and shifting to the next position. There IS no next position :-)

To relocate the strippers you have to shift the entire winch body. No sweat really, except when the nuts on the six studs that hold the winch to the deck are covered by the fancy birch cabin liner that doesn't have an access port, and the sealant used for the faying surface is 5200. Or the winch is fitted on a coaming where a man's arm cannot reach under to get at the nuts. And the sealant used is 5200 :-)

Well - difficulties are meant to be overcome, as they were. My complaint is simply this: When you pay bux to a "professional rigger" you have a right to expect that he knows, and is mindful of, how stripper bars are to be positioned in relation to the gorilla's work position. Had TrentePieds' rigger been of such quality, the use of 5200 would never have been discovered and would never have been a problem. For want of a "nail the shoe..."

So supervise your "perfessionals"

TrentePieds

[SaltyMonkey]

There are different kinds of refits and best to take it as course.

Operating Electronics Refit
Electrical refit
Plumbing Refit
Head Refit
Running Rigin refit
Fix'd riggn refit
Spar refit

Notice they are close but NOT inclusive of each other.

[coastalexplorer]

lindabarzini.

What is the purpose for your Question?
Are you looking to become a boat owner?
If so what is your 'general' Geographic location? (as in address not required!)

Answers to these questions would enable experts on this forum to make for more valid suggestions and offer advise.

My interpretation of a re-fit would be a major design change, renovation, or rebuild back to as new or even better condition.

[roland stockham]

I think the term comes from commercial/military service, it was maintenance if it was done while the boat was available for duty, it was a refit if the boat was taken out of commission and moved to a refit yard. So if the crew have to move ashore and the boat can't put to sea it's a refit!

[a64pilot]

There is no such word, it is a sales term, much like an engine overhaul.
Even in the world of aircraft an overhaul means to disassemble, clean, inspect and replace parts that don't meet serviceability requirements. That doesn't mean much except you have to replace what is worn out, but everything else can stay.
Often times an "overhaul" in the rest of the world may be as simple as gaskets to stop the oil leaks and new rings and valve guides to stop excessive oil consumption.
In each case you have to know what parts were replaced for you to make a determination if it was a patch job or properly done.

But it seems that many boats are on the market, it seems like in the foreseeable future it will be a buyers market, so sales people have gotten real creative in their lies, take everything you hear to be a lie until proven different, if you catch them in many lies, may be best to just walk.

[lesterbutch]

Trentepieds, upon reading your post, I must say you should never just have someone work on your boat. You should be looking carefully at each company before commiting to having work done. I do a complete search including contacting owners who have used that particular comanies services and (U.S.) I contact the Better Business Bureau to see if any complaints have been registered in the past 5 years. It's our responsibility to protect ourselves.

[Cadence]

Refit can mean anything someone wants it to mean. I think specifics would need to be asked for.

[DDabs]

"blue water refit" lollllllll

[Sofie B]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

On the sales side it's a marketing term.

On the person doing it's side it's a cool nautical word that makes spending money more tolerable. Fixing old **** just doesn't sound as Yachty as "I'm doing a Refit"...that makes it sound so much more cool.

This
We are doing a new galley and bathroom soon . I mentioned "kitchen" in the pub, and the reprimand I got from all the guys followed immediately with, 'It's a Galley Sofie. It's not a kitchen". T'other has done a top end overhaul of the engine and a new handrail is happening and a paint job next when we get her out for a month down the line. New carpets, new squabs,I'm doing at mo but the sewing machine needle through my index finger has caused a slight delay, New bedding throughout , and got a new anchor too. Refit sums it up a lot faster. "Fixing old ****" is exactly what it is.

[TrentePieds]

@lester #23

:-) You are quite right - I should not. Nor do I. TrentePieds' "refit" was not ordered by me, but by a gentleman rather weak on the fundamentals of seamanship and cruising and his costly refit in may ways made TrentePieds a LESS desirable cruising boat that she had been before - and certainly less desirable than she would have been if the 35K had been sensibly spent!

TrentePieds came to us BECAUSE of that. It "made the price right". She had sat and sat and sat with a "For Sale" sign on 'er, and because my beloved, who had never set foot in any kinda vessel until retirement age and therefore knew nothing whatsoever about boats and the sea, the moment she went below in TrentePieds (after having turned up her nose at a C&C27) went: "Ooooh!!! I love this!"

MyBeloved is not required to be a sailor. Tho I'm twice TrentePieds' age, I reckon it'll be another forty years or so before I become too feeble to sail, maintain and - ahem - "refit" a thirty-footer :-). I single-hand. MyBeloved is aboard, of course, but I single-hand. Now I find her learning "on the sly". Because I don't require it or expect it.

There are others on this forum who know how to step a mast while lying afloat in a cove somewhere. There are others who know how to careen a boat to wipe her bottom.

I admit I'm old and cranky. But that can often be a money saving fault. Or even a fiscal-calamity-avoiding fault :-)

Someone asked the OP what the "real" purpose of her query is. I wondered that - idly - myself, and my first post was meant as a gentle caution not to be taken in by acolytes of Madison Avenue bandying about waht they think of as "value words"

My position regarding such people is that they earn their keep by "selling into a market of ignorance". A Sailorman's knowledge and skills are not something ANYONE is born with. They are not intuitive. And given people's reluctance to admit to ignorance in general, the yachting's "market of ignorance" is a most profitable one for Elmer Gantrys of every kind.

Far better, it seems to me, that anyone contemplating the purchase of a fairly costly - now and for the future - item such as a cruising boat should confer with real sailors rather than boat brokers. As the OP has indeed done :-)

TrentePieds

[TrentePieds]

" squabs"??? Must be a Kiwi, eh?

TrentePieds

[Sofie B]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

" squabs"??? Must be a Kiwi, eh?

TrentePieds

Well I could actually (or "akshully" as our PM says a lot) hear a real one outside the bedroom window last night . They make a distinctive helluva racket. But I digress, yes Kiwi in the sense that I was born here (Christchurch,where it's now a bunch of rubble, Earthquakes are like that) But born to Irish,Pom Mother and Mexican American Father ( imagine the Catholicism) so I feel like I'm a bit all over the place like a mad woman's .... or at least I'm sure that's what t'other thinks :

And the squabs are looking fantastic in my not so humble opinion

[a64pilot]

It's not normally a bathroom either

However, my Wife's boat has couches, bathrooms, a kitchen, a back porch, our bedroom where we sleep in a bed, it has a ceiling and a floor, oh, and interior walls too.

Me, I know better than to correct her, I go along with it. Drives our Son nuts though.


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