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Old 03-06-2016, 18:31   #181
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Re: What ever happen to the REAL cruisers?

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Originally Posted by Cap Erict3 View Post
It's like Archie Bunkers theme song.

Boy the way Glenn Miller Played
Songs that made the Hit Parade
Guys like us we had it made
Those were the days.

Didn't need no Welfare states
Everybody pulled his weight
gee our old LaSalle ran great
Those were the days

And you knew who you were then
Girls were girls and men were men
Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again

People seemd to be content
$50 payed the rent
Freaks were in a circus tent
Those were the days

Take a little sunday spin
Tonight I'll watch the dogers win
Have yourself a dandy day that cost you under a fin

Hair was short and skirts were long
Kate Smith really sung the song
I don't know just what went wrong

THOSE WERE THE DAYS
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Old 05-06-2016, 10:44   #182
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Re: What ever happen to the REAL cruisers?

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
I hear what your saying but I don't agree with you. Age just takes away your edge in really fine flying, I don't think there are too many fighter pilots over the age of 60, do you? If you are right in your assumptions then there would be hundreds or thousands of fighter pilots in that age group.
I taught aerobatics for many years and did odd small air shows, I know I could teach right now but my hand eye coordination is not what it used tobe. Yes there are fellows that can play hockey into their 50's, well one anyways, Gordie Howe and there are some pilots that seem to defy all odds against them but on average age just takes a toll and the stats support that. I have lost several older duster pilot friends that were excellent pilots. Crop dusting in some parts of the country is not an entirely safe occupation.
You're right that there aren't many old fighter pilots but it's not directly because they got too old to do it well. In the US military you get promoted into jobs that require you to be there on the ground every day putting in long hours behind a desk. And that tends to decrease physical fitness to the point where your energy level and g tolerance aren't what they used to be. For a motivated and physically fit pilot, that syndrome can be avoided somewhat in the Air National Guard and as a result, they have some pretty old and wily fighter pilots who have kept flying as their primary job and do quite well at it. I know a current active duty 3 star who's my age that I'd put my money on in a F-16 dogfight against most younger guys if he had the time to still be current in the jet. (Coincidentally, he used to be a sailor too but his last sailboat was when he was in his 20's and every time I see him he professes to envy my lifestyle that he could also easily have as well, but he can't quite seem to pull the plug on his military career.) Another old friend, also my age, currently runs and instructs at his own crop dusting school. Pulling 8 or 9 g's is exhausting, especially if you're not in shape for it so if you let your physical fitness slide as you get older, you're right that your days of being an effective fighter pilot are finished. But you don't have to pull more than about 3 or 4 g's to fly low and make some pretty aggressive turns. I guess I really don't know how many g's crop dusters need to pull in order to be effective but if it's only about 3 or 4, I don't understand how age comes into play for someone who has made the effort to stay in shape until you're REALLY old and doddering? If it's more like 6 or 7g's or more, I can see where it's more of a young mans game because that many g's repeated many times really sucks the energy out of you and then you get sloppy. As far as hand/eye coordination, I'm almost 60 and haven't noticed a decline in that regard, but maybe that's more of an individual thing?

I too lost several friends and acquaintances while flying fighter jets and not one of them was due to a lack of hand/eye coordination. Almost all were due to a lapse in judgment or temporarily misplaced priorities or distraction. None were over age 33 when they died. I realize that old guys certainly aren't immune from lapses in judgment but they seem to have them less than young guys do, and once someone has developed and honed the necessary habit patterns for decades, their age can become an asset that younger guys can only hope to develop....someday. If you don't feel comfortable doing high performance flying any more, then you've undoubtedly made the right decision to not do it, but I don't think that decision is a "one size fits all" old guys answer.
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Old 05-06-2016, 11:04   #183
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Re: What ever happen to the REAL cruisers?

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Guy who checked me out years ago was named Jake Miller, at least one here knows him I'm sure. Old as heck over 70 I'm sure, honest to God blind in one eye, and deaf as a door nail, and one of the best just instinctive pilots I have ever flown with, he can make an airplane do things you swear isn't possible, and do so with no stress and smooth as silk.


Sent from my iPad Pro using Cruisers Sailing Forum
Air Force flight screening using Cessna 172's used to have a mix of civilian and military instructors and I happened to be extremely lucky the day they matched students to instructors so was assigned to an ancient civilian named Omar Midyett who, when younger, had barnstormed all over the US using the moniker of Claxton McDarrin doing things like wing walking and stepping from one airplane to another inflight! He once had a taxiing collision with Wiley Post caused by Wiley being blind in one eye. Great instructor and I loved to listen to his stories. It was a real privilege!
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Old 05-06-2016, 11:07   #184
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Re: What ever happen to the REAL cruisers?

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
You're right that there aren't many old fighter pilots but it's not directly because they got too old to do it well. In the US military you get promoted into jobs that require you to be there on the ground every day putting in long hours behind a desk. And that tends to decrease physical fitness to the point where your energy level and g tolerance aren't what they used to be. For a motivated and physically fit pilot, that syndrome can be avoided somewhat in the Air National Guard and as a result, they have some pretty old and wily fighter pilots who have kept flying as their primary job and do quite well at it. I know a current active duty 3 star who's my age that I'd put my money on in a F-16 dogfight against most younger guys if he had the time to still be current in the jet. (Coincidentally, he used to be a sailor too but his last sailboat was when he was in his 20's and every time I see him he professes to envy my lifestyle that he could also easily have as well, but he can't quite seem to pull the plug on his military career.) Another old friend, also my age, currently runs and instructs at his own crop dusting school. Pulling 8 or 9 g's is exhausting, especially if you're not in shape for it so if you let your physical fitness slide as you get older, you're right that your days of being an effective fighter pilot are finished. But you don't have to pull more than about 3 or 4 g's to fly low and make some pretty aggressive turns. I guess I really don't know how many g's crop dusters need to pull in order to be effective but if it's only about 3 or 4, I don't understand how age comes into play for someone who has made the effort to stay in shape until you're REALLY old and doddering? If it's more like 6 or 7g's or more, I can see where it's more of a young mans game because that many g's repeated many times really sucks the energy out of you and then you get sloppy. As far as hand/eye coordination, I'm almost 60 and haven't noticed a decline in that regard, but maybe that's more of an individual thing?

I too lost several friends and acquaintances while flying fighter jets and not one of them was due to a lack of hand/eye coordination. Almost all were due to a lapse in judgment or temporarily misplaced priorities or distraction. None were over age 33 when they died. I realize that old guys certainly aren't immune from lapses in judgment but they seem to have them less than young guys do, and once someone has developed and honed the necessary habit patterns for decades, their age can become an asset that younger guys can only hope to develop....someday. If you don't feel comfortable doing high performance flying any more, then you've undoubtedly made the right decision to not do it, but I don't think that decision is a "one size fits all" old guys answer.
Well written,
I also do some junior motor bike racing, well I did until we left to go cruising full time. I follow the riders,especially in MotoGP and one of the best riders, if not the best rider ever is Valantino Rossi. He is in his mid 30's now and younger riders that couldn't stand in his shadow are now beating him. Riding bikes is a bit like flying, high g's and good hand eye coordination and very high situational awareness as well as top notch physical conditioning . Professional riders go through a cycle, to start with they are accident prone but when they reach their peak they have very few and when they are getting long in the tooth they start having accidents again.The reason you don't feel your loosing your edge is the same reason many sports hero's delay their retirement much longer than they do, they feel just like you.
None of us like to believe we can't cut it anymore
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Old 05-06-2016, 11:24   #185
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Re: What ever happen to the REAL cruisers?

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
Air Force flight screening using Cessna 172's used to have a mix of civilian and military instructors and I happened to be extremely lucky the day they matched students to instructors so was assigned to an ancient civilian named Omar Midyett who, when younger, had barnstormed all over the US using the moniker of Claxton McDarrin doing things like wing walking and stepping from one airplane to another inflight! He once had a taxiing collision with Wiley Post caused by Wiley being blind in one eye. Great instructor and I loved to listen to his stories. It was a real privilege!
Our instructors were all excellent pilots in our eyes and many actually were. I have a good friend that is 85 and his basic vfr flying skills are better than 90% of pilots these days but he is no match for the pilot I knew in him 40 years ago. Today pilots are not that well trained in real solid basic flying skills, the job is to get them flying instruments and understanding the more complex side of professional flying. Quite frankly I don't care how many hours your typical airline pilot has, if you stuck him in an old Aeronca Chief and killed the engine at 1500 feet somewhere in the boondocks he would not stand a chance at making a successful forced landing compared to my 85 year old friend who I would put money on. But when we were much younger we did that kind of stuff for sport, those days are over.
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Old 05-06-2016, 16:23   #186
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Re: What ever happen to the REAL cruisers?

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I think there is too much focus on what is a Real Cruiser™ is. Credit card sailors, check book sailors, Rich sailors, poor sailors, drunk sailors, etc, are all cruisers when they travel to other places. It really does not matter how or why or even for how long, but only that they do.

Really a Real Cruiser™, is someone, really anyone who has a boat or wants a boat, to travel. Even if that travel is just on a lake, river, down the ICW or RTW. There is no wrong way to do it.

Lord knows we all had to start somewhere. We really don't need exclusive descriptions that limits someones, anyone's dreams, big or small. If you want exclusivity, join a yacht club or better yet a country club.
Yeah and be prepared to pay for it. I joined a Yacht club thinking it would be like, you know 'a club'. But sometimes I think it's just a guaranteed way of making money off you.
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