Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 28-09-2014, 14:49   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Conquerall Bank Nova Scotia
Boat: Catalina 30
Posts: 60
Re: What conditions gives experienced sailors pause ?

I found a website, bouyweather.com that provides a much more in depth forecast than Environment Canada and I wonder why? Isnt the data coming from government sources?

Either way Im glad I didnt go as the wind and waves were coming WSW and I would have been beating the whole trip.
__________________

__________________
Peters Wet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2014, 15:27   #17
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: What conditions gives experienced sailors pause ?

0 - dead calm.

5 - calm, unless a racer.

10 - fine to great, depending on angle.

15 - fine no matter what, great beam to broad reach.

20 - fine broad reach to run, a bit bumpy on beam, possibly wet upwind.

25 - fine if bumpy broad reach to run, rough beam, bit too much upwind.

30 and beyond - bumpy broad reach to run, avoid beam, slow and possibly upwind, avoid.

I assume seas to match.

Where we sail waves 2 to 3 meters are about normal. But this is open water. In shallower waters or with less fetch, smaller waves can be very nasty.

The closer to beam reach, the worse the wave action. I am fine with waves behind and against, much as the latter forces me to slow our boat down.

I think I like flat seas best and big waves next, I do not like the in between sea states.

A small boat here.

b.
__________________

__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2014, 15:45   #18
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
Hud3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Virginia
Boat: Island Packet 380, now sold
Posts: 8,929
Images: 49
Re: What conditions gives experienced sailors pause ?

Peter, since you're going to be sailing in Nova Scotia, you'll need to get used to those conditions and worse, don't you think? Might as well bite the bullet. One good way to get the experience you need safely is to find someone with experience to go out with you in conditions you're not comfortable facing alone. Do you have someone you can call on?
__________________
Hud
Hud3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2014, 15:50   #19
Registered User
 
Mark1977's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Halifax, N.S Canada
Boat: Tanzer 26, Walk22
Posts: 930
Re: What conditions gives experienced sailors pause ?

Peter, as you are aware if it is giving 20-25 we normally get 30-35. Where are you picking the boat up and taking it to?
__________________
Just the guy that runs the boat.
Mark1977 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2014, 16:09   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 170
Re: What conditions gives experienced sailors pause ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dohenyboy View Post
Sometimes when the combination of wind and sea state are fantastic to us sailors, a landlubber will be sitting there terrified, sure that death is imminent.

I was noticing that same scenario last week when the stink pots were coming in......the blow boats were heading out.
__________________
Old Snipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2014, 16:15   #21
Senior Cruiser
 
Roy M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Southwestern Yacht Club, San Diego, CA
Boat: Searunner 40 trimaran, WILDERNESS
Posts: 3,042
Images: 4
Re: What conditions gives experienced sailors pause ?

When one is already out there in the middle of it, it is not a time to be wondering about the likelihood of survival. That's why I use a very effective sea trial location when preparing my boat or those of others to test ourselves and the vessel. Those of us in sunny, calm and delicious Southern California are blessed with such a place nearby: the Santa Barbara Channel. Located just east of Point Conception, winds of the North Pacific come roaring down the channel, and are trapped between the mainland's mountain range and the tall offshore chain of islands to the southwest. You can spend the night in one of the lovely coves of Santa Cruz or Santa Rosa and get a good rest. You can rise early and double check all the boat's gear, your stowage, and your plan for the day, have a hearty breakfast and plenty of coffee. Then you head out into the channel, sailing to weather. At first, things are calm and easy to manage as you tack and jibe, practice man overboard drills, change sails and do those small tasks like inspecting the engine and other systems while underway. It's a dream sail.... until the afternoon breeze picks up. Then, things get different quickly as the wind picks up dramatically, fueled by the mainland heating up and the sea air blasting down the channel to fill in the hot rising air. The seas take on a whole new perspective, with the chop building, the longer sea swell forming in the afternoon with the thirty-plus winds, and that special fury that strong winds in constrained waters produces. The tacking to weather is now plain ugly. Things come adrift down below or wash overboard topside. People are working hard to keep things together. Those who go below to do the necessary stuff like use the head, make a sandwich, grab a quick rest in their bunk or check on their position find out that new techniques are called for to survive these testy conditions. At some point you say to yourselves, ENOUGH! Then you skedaddle back to the shelter of the coves of the islands, drop the hook, clean up the blood, vomit, broken glass, and have a cool adult beverage while discussing the day's adventure. You review your storage issues, how difficult doing ordinary tasks became, and question what would you have done IF....... Then you rest up and prepare the boat for doing the same thing the next day. When both you, the crew and the boat are able to handle these conditions with aplomb, if not absolute pleasure, then you will be ready for most anything the sea will ever be able to toss at you. With the investment of a few days in this testing environment, you will gain a sure sense of your abilities and capacities to cope under trying conditions. And when that happens, something else does too. People aren't afraid anymore, instead they are prepared for the worst, and know that the boat and their crewmates are up to the challenge of facing the unknown together. Then, you go home to one of the major seaports, get the work done that you discovered needed upgrading, you empty the boat of the stuff that was clearly inappropriate for the conditions, and you make ready to head off on the cruise that you imagined in your dreams. I am sure that there are local conditions wherever you live, that can provide similar testing and practice. If not, then find them before taking off on the big cruise and test yourselves. It will be worth all the effort, discomfort and cost.
__________________
Roy M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2014, 16:34   #22
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 49
Re: What conditions gives experienced sailors pause ?

Generally the prediction is 10 to 15 knots or 15 to 20, you should realistically add the numbers and prepare for the total. On a perfectly calm day things can go very bad. Talk to the tow boat captains, folks at the marina and the boatyard, digest the local knowledge, mark alternative landings on a chart. Don't get in a hurry.
__________________
CptLawrence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2014, 21:20   #23
Registered User
 
Ryan H's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: Grampian 26, Mercury 15, Formosa 41
Posts: 264
Images: 3
Re: What conditions gives experienced sailors pause ?

Hi Peters,
May I interject that for every comfortable sailor there will likely be another one that thinks they're crazy, and even likely another one that thinks they're not crazy enough.

It's your boat, it's you who carries the responsibility of it and all other lives aboard it. Be comfortable going out in what you're comfortable going out in. As you sail more and get to know you're boat better, you'll learn to trust both yourself and you're boat more and be more comfortable in different situations. Plenty of people here can say you'd be fine with a certain wave height or wind strength, but without the experience already being there to reinforce good habits, building techniques that you know work on your boat, and being comfortable with all of it both during and before hand a fun sail to most of us will be a nightmare to another.

Be comfortable with what you get yourself into. No need to hurry, eventually you'll trust your boat to the ends of the earth, just don't go there until you do.

Sent from my C5215 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
Ryan H is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29-09-2014, 09:52   #24
Registered User
 
nicholson31's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Boat: Camper Nicholson 31
Posts: 196
Re: What conditions gives experienced sailors pause ?

I think several have answered this question and I agree stating its something that is dependent on the boat and the sailor's experiance, more so the experiance!! If I said at 30 knt you shouldnt venture out, well I know some sailors that 20 knts this would apply, not that the boat and/or rigging will have failure but there would be too much to deal with and process for them to make sound decissions and what would be a great wind to sail in becomes a horriffic experiance.
As a newbie I would suggest being very familiar with Reefing and don't be affraid to do it even before you set out, great way to get to know your boat. Reef to the next point even and have peace of mind knowing you will have room to go if the winds do pick up, your sail will be much more enjoyable.
To give a specific answer to your question, I am quite comfortable sailing in inner coastal waters at 30 Knts (3rd reef), as was this past weekend, great sailing 40 deg heel at times.
Living in Newfoundland just east of you, 30-35 Knts NE on the open ocean, starts to become work and I try to avoid this when planning coastal hopping!!!
__________________
nicholson31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-09-2014, 09:56   #25
Registered User
 
nicholson31's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Boat: Camper Nicholson 31
Posts: 196
Re: What conditions gives experienced sailors pause ?

Ryan H you have also hit the nail on the head!!!
__________________
nicholson31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-09-2014, 10:54   #26
Registered User
 
rognvald's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Summer: In the land of Wooly Mammoths
Boat: Pearson 34-II
Posts: 2,252
Images: 2
Re: What conditions gives experienced sailors pause ?

Peters Wet (Gee, that couldn't possibly be a play on words is it?),
Sailing is a cumulative sport/avocation. For most, the practical approach is to build your skills based upon experience in wind and waves. When you feel comfortable, move to the next level. However, large leaps in conditions/experience create potential for disaster. If you are sailing coastal NS, you are sailing serious waters. If you have not sailed in 20k winds previously and are uncertain, it's best to take an experienced sailor along for the trip or to wait for a better weather window. The worst time to find out you've been overwhelmed and out of control is once you've committed. Good luck and good sailing.
__________________
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathrustra
rognvald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-09-2014, 10:59   #27
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,059
Re: What conditions gives experienced sailors pause ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholson31 View Post
I think several have answered this question and I agree stating its something that is dependent on the boat and the sailor's experiance, more so the experiance!! If I said at 30 knt you shouldnt venture out, well I know some sailors that 20 knts this would apply, not that the boat and/or rigging will have failure but there would be too much to deal with and process for them to make sound decissions and what would be a great wind to sail in becomes a horriffic experiance.
As a newbie I would suggest being very familiar with Reefing and don't be affraid to do it even before you set out, great way to get to know your boat. Reef to the next point even and have peace of mind knowing you will have room to go if the winds do pick up, your sail will be much more enjoyable.
To give a specific answer to your question, I am quite comfortable sailing in inner coastal waters at 30 Knts (3rd reef), as was this past weekend, great sailing 40 deg heel at times.
Living in Newfoundland just east of you, 30-35 Knts NE on the open ocean, starts to become work and I try to avoid this when planning coastal hopping!!!
Good post on reefing. If it gets snotty chances are the boat won't fail. don't be afraid or embarrassed to put jackets on all and a life line on anyone going on deck, eg. striking a foresail or reefing a main.
__________________
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-09-2014, 14:40   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2013
Boat: Alberg 35 1966
Posts: 21
Re: What conditions gives experienced sailors pause ?

Good question, good answers all. I'm at the end of a 3 year refit so will be making the marina-yard trip soon for zincs etc.
You don't say how far you have to go, presumably far enough to get you thinking. What about navigation skills, chart etc if tht is an issue?
Even a remote possibility of after dark? Have you made this trip before? Have you sailed on the boat boat before?

Best to motor and have someone to help you.

1. Being a newbie, can you single hand this boat in a 20-30 kt squall? think it through. You are a newbie, single handing and expecting weather. Rig and wear jacklines and harness. Do you have good foul weather gear?
2. Get someone experienced to check out all systems (dont trust the survey report from when you bought the boat).
- dump a bucket of water into the bilge and be sure it gets pumped out.
- does the alternator charge the battery
- run the engine for 30+ min, check for temp, smells and leaks. Shaft gland should drip.
- service the fuel filter(s)
- Check the depthsounder
- Check your vhf and take a handheld if in doubt. A high power flash light for spotting buoys. Nav lights work?
Running rigging - main and jib halyards for possibilities of jamming.
- Be sure you know how to reef it and do a dry run at the dock
- Be sure you can drop and subdue main and jib in a squall. Enough sail ties?
When you leave the dock, be sure to secure your after docking lines so they wont trail and find the prop.


This is all routine stuff tht you'll do every time you leave the dock, no big deal .... enjoy!!
__________________
phstol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-09-2014, 13:26   #29
Senior Cruiser
 
s/v Beth's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
Boat: Valiant 40 (1975)
Posts: 4,066
Re: What conditions gives experienced sailors pause ?

You know, after thinking about what he is thinking of doing, I realized I gave the wrong advice:
Do not go out solo with a new to you boat and ocean.
Just don't.
We that have been at this game for many years would not.
What makes you skill superior to ours?
You have to go? Hire crew.
__________________
s/v Beth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-09-2014, 14:54   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Conquerall Bank Nova Scotia
Boat: Catalina 30
Posts: 60
Re: What conditions gives experienced sailors pause ?

Thanks to everyone for the advice and opinions, My interpretation of weather data was more the meat of the question rather than my ability . This is a great forum though and Im glad to have so many helpfull comments and opinions a simple click away,
Cheers
Peter
__________________

__________________
Peters Wet is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
enc, sail

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Big Ship Little Boat, who Gives way nigel1 General Sailing Forum 425 02-05-2017 18:43
Depth Gauge Gives Wrong Readings, Raymarine myocean Marine Electronics 5 19-07-2013 11:37
Open CPN gives crash dump on pc r.van.kasteel OpenCPN 2 20-05-2012 22:43
So . . . Hawaii . . . What Gives ? rebel heart Pacific & South China Sea 22 03-03-2011 08:17
ST6001+ Gives NO PILOT and / or STLK FAIL dubhouse Marine Electronics 3 11-08-2010 23:06



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:43.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.