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avb3 · 21-09-2013, 11:49

This thread was temporarily and inadvertently closed.

As they say in the military, as you were

goboatingnow · 21-09-2013, 13:08

Its a simple enough situation based on what we know, other facts may emerge well see.]

based on what happened the ferry ran over the sailboat , when the ferry should have kept clear.

Dockhead is to be listened to when we talks about COLREGS, and its a red herring to say their are any significant differences in regards Inland.

The " turn and run" approach is not the sum total of avoiding collisions.

Dave

Jammer Six · 21-09-2013, 13:29

There's a difference between a red herring and ignorance. So have a seat.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I need to know which COLREGS to study.

I'm also figuring out who to listen to here-- and it sounds to me like the English Channel operates on a different set of COLREGS than Puget Sound does. Based on that, if a guy is an expert in the English Channel, he may or may not be an expert in Puget Sound, depending on how many different COLREGS there are and how significant the differences are.

Then this post seems to imply there is yet another set of rules called the NAVRULES:

Quote:

Originally Posted by psneeld

I love how amateur boaters think they can even begin to imagine what a professional captain of higher ratings is thinking when it comes to avoiding recreational boaters....

First of all...it's a roll of the dice to maneuver your vessel thinking that the amateur is going to follow the NAVRULEs...do they even know what the NAVRULEs are all about.?????

However, searching on "navrules" takes me right back to the COLREGS, so it appears to me that they are two names for the same system. "NAVRULES" appears to be the formal name, and COLREGS the nickname.

And finally this post seems to imply that in Europe, there is yet another set of rules:

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

EU and the Rest of the World inland waterways rules maybe worth checking as you guys chose to be different in Navigation to the normal...

It would be okay with me to write him off-- he uses a weird font, and Americans are all about appearance.

On another topic, the idea of trying to enforce a "sterile cockpit" on a charter sloop with a crew that is all paying to be there isn't going to fly.

**Coops** · 21-09-2013, 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

along with that compass (not a trivial purchase)

A very trivial purchase actually. He did not care what it did, he did not want to learn, he did not even want one but had to have one. He did not want to know about anything but it's cost. He bought a $9.95 folding army green one that is basically a toy that you would give to the kids.

Coops.

**Dockhead** · 21-09-2013, 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jammer Six

There's a difference between a red herring and ignorance. So have a seat.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I need to know which COLREGS to study.

I'm also figuring out who to listen to here-- and it sounds to me like the English Channel operates on a different set of COLREGS than Puget Sound does. Based on that, if a guy is an expert in the English Channel, he may or may not be an expert in Puget Sound, depending on how many different COLREGS there are and how significant the differences are.

Then this post seems to imply there is yet another set of rules called the NAVRULES:

However, searching on "navrules" takes me right back to the COLREGS, so it appears to me that they are two names for the same system. "NAVRULES" appears to be the formal name, and COLREGS the nickname.

And finally this post seems to imply that in Europe, there is yet another set of rules:

It would be okay with me to write him off-- he uses a weird font, and Americans are all about appearance.

Colregs, Navrules, International Rules, are all just different (and not one of them official) names for the very same international set of rules adopted for the whole world in 1972. The official name is the International Regulations for the Prevention of Collisions at Sea. They are exactly the same all over the world. So exactly the same in San Francisco Bay, in the Sea of Cortez, in the English Channel, in the South China Sea, the Baltic, etc., etc. Maybe that's why they're called the "International" Rules

The rules in the English Channel are precisely, word for word, the same as they are in Puget Sound, until you pass the Colregs Demarcation Line.

The Colregs (or whichever other nickname you prefer) do not apply to inland waterways. There every state is free to set their own rules. So yes, in Europe there is a harmonized code of inland navigation rules called CEVNI which is uniform throughout Europe.

In the U.S., we have our own Inland Navigation Rules which are in fact almost exactly identical to the Colregs with just a few deviations for river-specific matters, and with some different signals and lights. You can read the line by line comparison in the Coast Guard link I posted earlier.

Once you pass the Colregs Demarcation Line in Puget Sound, you are under the Inland Navigation Rules, but as long as you are not navigating in a river, the differences are practically immaterial.

So differences between rules is not an issue here, or hardly ever. The rules are pretty much universal, certainly what concerns overtaking, standing on, etc.

It's not actually all that complicated.

goboatingnow · 21-09-2013, 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jammer Six

There's a difference between a red herring and ignorance. So have a seat.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I need to know which COLREGS to study.

I'm also figuring out who to listen to here-- and it sounds to me like the English Channel operates on a different set of COLREGS than Puget Sound does. Based on that, if a guy is an expert in the English Channel, he may or may not be an expert in Puget Sound, depending on how many different COLREGS there are and how significant the differences are.

Then this post seems to imply there is yet another set of rules called the NAVRULES:

However, searching on "navrules" takes me right back to the COLREGS, so it appears to me that they are two names for the same system. "NAVRULES" appears to be the formal name, and COLREGS the nickname.

And finally this post seems to imply that in Europe, there is yet another set of rules:

It would be okay with me to write him off-- he uses a weird font, and Americans are all about appearance.

On another topic, the idea of trying to enforce a "sterile cockpit" on a charter sloop with a crew that is all paying to be there isn't going to fly.

You are very confused about COLREGS and how they apply and the US inland regs ( which are really just a small mod of the COLREGS)

The overtaking rules are the same anyway, Dockheads and others experience of the English Channel is entirely appropriate anywhere in the world.

dave

Delfin · 21-09-2013, 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatInHand

Looks like they go about 15 knots:

WSDOT - Ferries - VesselWatch

At gross tonnage 17 knots. At lighter loads, like on a Friday in September and with a hull speed of 23 knots 20 knots would be typical. I'm not real sure whether its a mitigating factor for the ferry if they ran this guy over going slower than they might.

markpierce · 21-09-2013, 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by avb3

Most of us learned way back in grade school that a compass points north. That's pretty basic information that has nothing to do with sailing.

Where did you go to school? No, a compass does not point north, as in the North Pole. It points to wherever the earth's magnetism dictates at your particular location as affected by the peculiarities of your boat.

frank_f · 21-09-2013, 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by markpierce

Where did you go to school? No, a compass does not point north, as in the North Pole. It points to wherever the earth's magnetism dictates at your particular location as affected by the peculiarities of your boat.

Just a question but for those of us who still use a compass (not a GPS or a chartplotter), how many enter their heading into the log as True North?

Just wondering because I enter mine as magnetic and show any deviation for that heading.

avb3 · 21-09-2013, 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by markpierce

Where did you go to school? No, a compass does not point north, as in the North Pole. It points to wherever the earth's magnetism dictates at your particular location as affected by the peculiarities of your boat.

Yes we were made quite aware that there was a deviation. However I think most people understand when we say a compass points north we were talking normally direction.

**Dockhead** · 21-09-2013, 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by frank_f

Just a question but for those of us who still use a compass (not a GPS or a chartplotter), how many enter their heading into the log as True North?

Just wondering because I enter mine as magnetic and show any deviation for that heading.

Thread drift, but I do it like you do.

In fact, I use magnetic north for everything, and all my electronics use magnetic north, too. That's because, like you, I'm compass-oriented -- electronics, as much as I love 'em, are secondary instruments.

Jammer Six · 21-09-2013, 15:25

So I only need to learn one set of COLREGS.

Now.

Moving on to bridge-to-bridge between a sail boat and a Washington State Ferry, how formal is it? Are there specific words that one uses to ask the captain what he's going to do?

Blue Crab · 21-09-2013, 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jammer Six

... Moving on to bridge-to-bridge between a sail boat and a Washington State Ferry, how formal is it? Are there specific words that one uses to ask the captain what he's going to do?

Ha ha ha. That's too easy.

**Dockhead** · 21-09-2013, 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jammer Six

So I only need to learn one set of COLREGS.

Now.

Moving on to bridge-to-bridge between a sail boat and a Washington State Ferry, how formal is it? Are there specific words that one uses to ask the captain what he's going to do?

Oh, definitely. Write this down, so you don't mix anything up:

"What the f*** are you doing you crazy barsteward, don't you see you're about to run me the f*** down??!!"

Or, to save time, you could use one of these: