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Old 20-09-2013, 19:25   #271
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Re: What can happen when you cut off a ferry

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
My head swivels like an owl. This isn't driving on the freeway ...
Well you have never been in this channel.

It's worse then driving on a freeway.

I've been in this channel when there are 2 or 3 plastic boats doing 15--20 knots, 2 WA State Ferries, a couple of fast fish boats, and a dozen day riders, then add in 2-6 Sail boats.

The tides and currents are on a schedule, and the Ferries are on a schedule, all other traffic is trying to dodge one another.

Let You're head Swivel, this is a day and a life in Upright Channel.

Lloyd
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Old 20-09-2013, 19:26   #272
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Re: What can happen when you cut off a ferry

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Originally Posted by SecondBase View Post
Sterile cockpit rule if you have ferries within 10,000 feet.
You have enhanced situational awareness even in fog with AIS.
However, adhere to Raku's teaching of "don't disappear into your electronics.

Timers are extremely helpful to captains. I keep 3-4 at my pilothouse helm station. One count down timer specifically takes me through an ingrained habit, "timer Reset - GPS - Sounder - AIS, visuals: fore, starboard, aft, port". In a busy harbor that timer may be on a 2 minute cycle. At Sea it might be on 10-12 minutes. Note: even at two minutes I keep interim watch-- that is just an interrupt in case something else happens. The interrupt reminds me to continue piloting.

Another timer runs on an hourly count down to monitor engine, fuel gauges, radar scope.

If you keep repeating to yourself "head's on a swivel" you'll remain alive to continue positing on the Forum!
Ouch...I thought rec boating was supposed to be fun...the only timer I ever heard of on any experienced rec boat was if they were gonna sleep.

A RADAR alert zone maybe..but that was it before AIS....

On a tug I used to run...there was a countdown timer that automatically shut off the autopilot every 5 minutes if you didn't acknowledge it..but that was it as far as timers....

A little overkill for experienced crews in my opinion.
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Old 20-09-2013, 19:27   #273
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Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post

Well you have never been in this channel.

It's worse then driving on a freeway.

I've been in this channel when there are 2 or 3 plastic boats doing 15--20 knots, 2 WA State Ferries, a couple of fast fish boats, and a dozen day riders, then add in 2-6 Sail boats.

The tides and currents are on a schedule, and the Ferries are on a schedule, all other traffic is trying to dodge one another.

Let You're head Swivel, this is a day and a life in Upright Channel.

Lloyd
I think you two are saying the same thing.
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Old 20-09-2013, 19:30   #274
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Ouch...I thought rec boating was supposed to be fun...the only timer I ever heard of on any experienced rec boat was if they were gonna sleep.

A RADAR alert zone maybe..but that was it before AIS....

On a tug I used to run...there was a countdown timer that automatically shut off the autopilot every 5 minutes if you didn't acknowledge it..but that was it as far as timers....

A little overkill for experienced crews in my opinion.
Fair point. I did a 1,000 mile solo divided between ICW & outside. For me it was a big sail but nothing compared to many members here who have soloed much further. Having read lots of the single handing quandaries, I definitely went for overkill.
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Old 20-09-2013, 19:31   #275
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Re: What can happen when you cut off a ferry

I understood what you meant perfectly, Ma'm.
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Old 20-09-2013, 19:56   #276
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Re: What can happen when you cut off a ferry

What's a "sterile cockpit"?
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Old 20-09-2013, 20:07   #277
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Re: What can happen when you cut off a ferry

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
Current will have a bigger effect on a great big ferry than a smaller pleasure craft.
I'm surprised no-one corrected you on this yet. Current has the same effect on all vessels. Faster vessels are better able to overcome the effects of the current than slower vessels.
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Old 20-09-2013, 20:58   #278
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Re: What can happen when you cut off a ferry

I have not had the pleasure of dancing with the WSF's, but I had an encounter with a RI ferry a couple of days ago. Needless to say it was mostly uneventful. I came around the tip of Conanicut Island heading north into Naragansett bay west passage a couple of hundred yards off of the west side of the Island. A catamaran ferry came around the point near Jamestown at full cruise speed, 20 25 knots is my estimate, and turned on a reciprocal course head on at me. As the rule book says, make any maneuver big and obvious. IMO I was too close to shore to make an adequate evasive turn to starboard as would have been normal so I made about an 80 degree turn to port. I think this surprised the ferry captain as it was pretty obvious he chopped his throttles for a few seconds. We were still at least a half mile apart. I was very surprised at how fast the ferry slowed down. Once it was clear to him my turn was intentional he sped up again. I went several hundred yards to port and then turned back to my original heading. When the ferry got closer we exchanged two whistle blasts and all as fine. It seems to me those medium size cat ferries are extremely manuverable and can slow/stop very quickly. I would guess the ferry captain never saw him (the guy in WA) or was distracted by something else and allowed the collision situation to develop. If I had been heading the same direction as the ferry I passed I'm not sure if I would have seen him in time to avoid him or not. I am not terribly familiar with the area I was in and was concentrating on navigational marks and reefs in front of me. I was only occasionally looking behind me. It is quite possible he could have closed the distance to a point where I could not have avoided him. If he had come around the point behind me I would have had perhaps a minute or less if I had been looking behind me when he cleared the point. Plenty of time perhaps, but if while busy navigating I looked behind me once a minute, it is quite possible that he could have run me over before I knew he was there. I figured he would be coming back so I looked behind me a lot for the rest of the trip up the bay.

I guess the investigation will determine why the captain never saw the sailboat. It was not clear to me what time of day the incident occurred, but it could be as simple as the sailboat was in the glare of the setting or rising sun. I know it is almost impossible to see small especially light colored objects from my helm in the glare of reflected sun light. Maybe from the bridge high above the water on one of these ferries a small light topped sailboat is hard to see as well. If they don't have a radar reflector the might be nearly invisible. In any case, after seeing these ferries move it is clear to me that they could/would be able to avoid a collision if they saw the sailboat. These things are not supertankers with 100,000 tons of inertia to overcome.
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Old 20-09-2013, 21:00   #279
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Re: What can happen when you cut off a ferry

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Sorry he was at the wheel in the wheel house!

Dave
Sorry, he SAID he was at the wheel in the wheel house...Futzing with his radar for
testing.
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Old 20-09-2013, 21:12   #280
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Re: What can happen when you cut off a ferry

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Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
Well you have never been in this channel.

It's worse then driving on a freeway.

I've been in this channel when there are 2 or 3 plastic boats doing 15--20 knots, 2 WA State Ferries, a couple of fast fish boats, and a dozen day riders, then add in 2-6 Sail boats.

The tides and currents are on a schedule, and the Ferries are on a schedule, all other traffic is trying to dodge one another.

Let You're head Swivel, this is a day and a life in Upright Channel.

Lloyd

i understand, I'm not convinced that I would have taken up sailing under the circumstances. Where i learned to sail was more like a lake with very little through traffic, and extremely litte ommercial traffic (we do have shrimp boats coming through on their way to the Gulf). But they're not a big problem because they don't have their booms and nets out yet.

I like being able to progress through the various skills, for instance (since that's been the topic here) negotiating who should be where doing wet, with fewer players on the board.

I think only someone very insecure would see such a thing as an opportunity to treat someone else as an object of scorn, and that's what's happened here.

I've said it before. There are bullies on this board.
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Old 20-09-2013, 21:15   #281
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Re: What can happen when you cut off a ferry

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I understood what you meant perfectly, Ma'm.
i am sorry to tell you, but I don't even remember what you were going on about. I think everyone knows you don't have friendly feelings for me. I refuse to descend to that level.
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Old 20-09-2013, 21:25   #282
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Re: What can happen when you cut off a ferry

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
i understand, I'm not convinced that I would have taken up sailing under the circumstances. Where i learned to sail was more like a lake with very little through traffic, and extremely litte ommercial traffic (we do have shrimp boats coming through on their way to the Gulf).
Wasn't the "sailor" motoring rather than sailing, much like this fellow despite favorable winds and tide today?:



With an open cockpit, a rearward view is unobstructed, unlike ships I've observed.
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Old 20-09-2013, 21:29   #283
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Re: What can happen when you cut off a ferry

I saw you! (I'm in the photographed boat.)

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Old 20-09-2013, 22:13   #284
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Re: What can happen when you cut off a ferry

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Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
I've spent some thirty years dodging NW ferries, and all other large shipping in the NW.

Year in Year out.

If the skipper piloting is in fact not Piloting, then whether his boat is on course is debatable.

As I said in my post Ive have been in this exact channel at least twice yearly some times more never less.

I spend 6 weeks annual between Seattle and Johnstone Straight. I crorss all maner of Shipping Lanes, and channels with 6 to 7 knot currents.

This Particular area is a concern for any Pilot of any vessel. So because of the traffic, and the constrained area of navigation...you never leave the helm....PERIOD...Whether you spend 2 seconds looking at the screen, or falling asleep.

If this were the day and age of plotting on paper charts, you certainly would't leave the helm, and go below to plot your course....so equally you wouldn't loose track of time and/or have you're nose in any electronic aid to navigation.

I'm sorry this whole incident could have been avoided by a person piloting the sail boat.

Expecting the Ferry Captain to assume the the sail vessel was in charge/control would be the protocol. The Ferry Captain/Bridge has fault to the point that they assumed the sail boat was in fact being Piloted by an able Body Skipper.

So been there done that for the last 30 plus years.

lloyd
The Johnstone Strait via the Harney Channel? Really? Were you lost, or sightseeing?

The 5 knot sailboat was run over by the 25 knot ferry, from behind. He didn't dive under the bow , he was run over. Did I mention he was run over? The ferry captain is at fault for running over a vessel they could have, as the overtaking vessel, simply passed as the Colregs stipulate. Your understanding of the area, how much room there is, how these ferries operate makes me wonder if we're talking about the same area where I live.
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Old 20-09-2013, 22:57   #285
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Re: What can happen when you cut off a ferry

It's wise to be a big radar "target." Plastic and wooden boats should consider having multiple radar reflectors.
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