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Old 09-11-2008, 05:21   #16
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procrew4u,

Just a comment on your observations regarding the Caribbean 1500 blog...

I think you mis-read the part about "beer and wine". They were talking about having something to drink while waiting out the bad weather, safely tied to a dock in Hampton, Virginia. The original departure date was Monday, 2nd Nov, but it was delayed to Friday, 7th Nov. And the 1500 staff arranges for professional weather routing services for the event. The fact that they have departed indicates that Paloma is not regarded as a credible threat. In fact, if you look at easily available weather sources yourself, you'll see that the overwhelming consensus is that it will disintegrate after exiting Cuba and be gone within a few days, never having made it to the Atlantic at all.

From my personal experience, no participants in the 1500 ever view it as a "booze cruise". It's a fun experience, but weather, safety, boat preparation, and the sailing part are taken very seriously, believe me.
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Old 09-11-2008, 05:56   #17
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Reiterating what Hud said:

Hurricane Paloma weakened further early this morning, to a Cat 1 storm, (85 mph) as it moved across Cuba, the US National Hurricane Center said.

At 0900 GMT, the eye of the hurricane was located 45 kilometers (30 miles) southeast of the city iof Camaguey, Cuba, according to the US center.

Paloma is forecast to degenerate to a weak low pressure area (tropical depression) by Monday.
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:57   #18
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This is what I read,
To prepare ourselves for this harrowing part of our journey, we’ve reprovisioned so that we’re sure to have enough to eat and drink during this precarious time. We’ve found some wonderful homemade chips at a local grocery and we’ve restocked our supply of Jack Daniels for our captain and Diet Coke for Rodney and Howard and white wine for the girls. With those sorts of fundamental staples on hand, we should be okay for a while, I think.

Gord,
thanks for your update and was wondering if you have this download, www.ugrib.com what a great tool for weather.
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Old 09-11-2008, 07:58   #19
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Whoa guys,

Adolecents? Boozers? Rich status concious owners? Not able to eye up a 'real job'? Arrmchair sailors?

What's the matter with you all?

If you've had one bad experience then I have too - but I'd never level this kind of stuff at a fellow sailor just because they prefer to only cruise or find value in racing.

And personally I don't find anything wrong with a drink either. Maybe a few of you should chill out with a glass or two.....

Peace.

JOHN
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Old 09-11-2008, 08:29   #20
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You are absolutely right john.

I was serious in my first post but very much tongue in cheek on the second.

For those who enjoy all the hype that surrounds racing I wish them well….just don’t try to teach me how to manage my boat or because of their reckless group decisions in the name of speed, give governments reason to legislate how and when I should equip and sail away.



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Old 09-11-2008, 08:48   #21
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We've enjoyed racing but now enjoy cruising with only an occasional race. The thing about racing is you have a gage to compare your performance visa vi sister ships and similar boats. You learn quickly what is right and what is wrong, you don't overpower boats you learn balance. You learn how weather can greatly affect your standing when you miss a shift or sail in less pressure. You learn boat handling that can only be learned on the starting line or in rounding situations. You race in all conditions and learn to perform in all conditions.

Are there jerks in racing who yell and chase away other competitors and crew? Sure but there are also good skippers who are fun to sail with and you'll learn from them.

If you want to learn to sail, racing is a great way to start. If you race you'll be a better sailor.
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Old 09-11-2008, 13:39   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procrew4u View Post
This is what I read,
To prepare ourselves for this harrowing part of our journey, we’ve reprovisioned so that we’re sure to have enough to eat and drink during this precarious time. We’ve found some wonderful homemade chips at a local grocery and we’ve restocked our supply of Jack Daniels for our captain and Diet Coke for Rodney and Howard and white wine for the girls. With those sorts of fundamental staples on hand, we should be okay for a while, I think.
It seemed clear to me that they were referring facetiously to the wait for weather in Hampton as "this harrowing part of our journey". I've been in that situation several times, and the waiting is harder than the leaving. Having done all the boat prep three times over, the crew needs to blow off steam a bit.
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Old 09-11-2008, 13:49   #23
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Like the old Prosche ad said, "Racing improves the breed."

A comment was made about always have an engine to rely on if needed. Having been in a situation in which the transmission was "cooked" after hitting a piece of fiching net in the middle of the Pacific high, I am glad that some of us had the skills to sail in very light air.

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Old 09-11-2008, 15:48   #24
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Well other then a first attempt and then a retraction ..it dosent seem like anybody's really trying to answere to OP question..But instead has turned into mud slinging.

I'll take a stab at it

Some of my perceived ides on Offshore Racers contributions to cruisers.

1) Maximizing your boats ability to get to weather/sail choice etc.
2) Tricks on actual sail changing
3) Tricks on sail handeling and trimming
4) Modification Tricks on laying out neet and functional running rigging plans.
5) Head stay and back stay tuning to depower your rig when necessary
6) Proper use of tell tails and what they really are telling you
7) And eficent and practiced method of MOB in grueling conditions
8) What safty gear really works and what dosent in demanding stressful situations..some of it will kill you used improperly or at the wrong time.
9)Tricks on management of fatigue and hypothermia onset and recognizing it.
10) Maximizing point of sail for any given sea or wind state to stay on course if possibal within safe margins.
11) Rigging or structrual failures and Jerry rigged fixes and how to deal with them.


Some of my perceived Ideas of what a Offshore cruiser could bring to the table.

1) Effective hove to and drogue handeling teckneeks.
2) Tricks on anchoring and choosing propper anchors/scope and anchorages
3) Efficient and practical storage and cataloguing of all things boat for extended cruising
4) Efficient system of all things legal...ie boat documents/records..permits needed ..custom clearing..ect.
5) Learning how to live with what you have and not expect a sponsors replacement..ie sailing on a budget.
6) Communication skills..ie..people skills
7) Good log entry management
8) Tips to SSB communication within the cruising networks
9) meal planning ...lets not get bored with our food
10) Electrical conservation and how bet to generate and store it.
11) Long term galvanic corrosion problums and prevention of related issue to cruising

This is far from an exhaustive or for that matter relevant list due to the nature that every one already has experiences that lend to one set of skills or another.

But I think it is plain to see where the mood of my list leans..again this is my perception not yours.
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Old 09-11-2008, 17:36   #25
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Serious hat on

This actually is an interesting question and I apologize to Gord for letting my bad experiences with the racing fraternity, color my answers.

Good answer from Joli that doing some match racing will help a beginner to reinforce and tune his sailing skills.

Stillraining’s list actually highlights the difference in priorities that Cruiser and Racers have with each other and I think therein lies the more accurate answer.

Whatever is more important to a sailor, will naturally become their strong suit and we can all lean from that diversity….. what to do…(and what not to do).

Sailors are by definition “Jack of all trades” and our judgment over which trade we excel at…. is as personal as our relationship with the sea itself.
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Old 09-11-2008, 17:49   #26
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Pelagic, I kind of figured you had a bad run in with a racing yacht you moved. Some of the guys on these boats are jerks but they are not all jerks, there are a few good guys.

In general I think racers are better sailors and cruisers are better at ship management, boths groups can learn from each. Each type of sailing has skills sets that are particular to that type of sailing. Certainly the skill sets overlap but are not the same.
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Old 09-11-2008, 18:46   #27
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::nod::

For examples, as a cruiser I try hard to define my routes to maximize favourable winds. I'm not too interested in a rig which is solely focused on sailing upwind; I need something focused on sailing off the wind, but reasonable on all points. Most cruisers have one set of sails to do 90% of their travel, but maybe a light-air rig in addition to a storm rig. High focus on sail changing techniques, selecting the right sail for conditions? no, it's just not that important.

I watch racers to see what technologies survive the abuse with aplomb, and then are also relevant to my cruising. Gulf Stream forecasting seems brilliant and useful. Satellite tracking is less so. Canting keels is totally irrelevant to me. Using a half-dozen sailbags as sandbag-style ballast is less than irrelevant - it's anathema.

A sailor gets his ship, crew, and cargo safely and in good time from point a to point b. There's more to it than just speed.
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Old 09-11-2008, 19:06   #28
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Finally we see an end, and we come to an agreement that no matter how we sail, JUST DO IT SAFELY!
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Old 10-11-2008, 12:07   #29
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I come from a racing background. I have been on cruising boats where I had a horrible time and racing boats where I had a horrible time. Things that I learned from racing were:

Sail Shape and its relation to boat speed.

Going thru fire drills with sails helped me understand how to resolve problems fast.

A better understanding of how boats move thru the water.

How to get people to do things w/o out yelling at them.

Sometimes that you need to yell to get things done.

take the time to talk thru some thing before you do it.

On cruising boats I leanrned:

Reef earlier b/c there is no crew to help should a fire drill break out.

Speed is good but comfort is king.

take the time to talk thru what needs to be done before you start doing it.
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Old 10-11-2008, 13:05   #30
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"If you want to learn to sail, racing is a great way to start. If you race you'll be a better sailor"
Well put Joli!
With an expensive sports car I decided to take some lessons at Summit Raceway's road track. After a single day of track time and wet track time I feel not only better at the corners but also much more aware of my surroundings as well as a more defensive driver.
New to sailing a friend of mine invited me on a friend of his boat to race. I've been on this boat "in the Pit" twice handling the lines other than the sheets then just this last weekend "on the winch" and main sheet. I've learned more about sail control and adjustments under a competent captain and first mate's instruction then I feel I would if I was just cruising. Sailboats literally feet apart and running under control is amazing. Being aware of your surroundings is very important. Being able to react quickly under pressure is a skill well worth practicing.
In between racing weekends My wife and I went out on a 42ft Lagoon cat, much more boat then I want, 40ft would be plenty for our needs, 38ft I believe perfect. I don't want a boat to race but something we can enjoy tooling around the Chesapeake. I asked the salesman about trimming, his response was simplistic and after pressing the electronic winch button to tack all was right in the world. Now I'm smart enough to know the difference and running around the Bay is a lot different than out in the Atlantic but I'm better for the experience I've gotten while club racing on a 30 footer so when I get my cat I'll be a little more prepared for the unprepairable. Each and every experience is a new one and any way I can get that experience has been a thrill.

Steve in VA
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