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Old 14-07-2005, 20:27   #1
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What about THIS anchor??

http://www.sonsetmarine.com/index.as...TS&Category=16

Has anyone had experience with this type of anchor? I wanted a heavy Bruce for the new 45' 26,000 displacement boat we just bought.

Is 110 lbs overkill? Should I go for 66 lbs instead?

And more importantly, why would this Bruce be so much less than the others I see for $1000 out there?

Thanks folks.
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Old 14-07-2005, 21:08   #2
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The reason for the price, I would suggest, is that they are not Genuine Bruce. Notice the wording, Bruce Manta "type" anchors.
The original Bruce is a good anchor. I wouldn't say the best, but still a good anchor. Ummm, just to clarify that statment, I don't believe ANY anchor has sole rights to the name "The Best". Each design has advantages and disadvantages. Anyway's, Back to the question. Many have copied those "leading" designs over the years and due to Patents, they have alway's changed the design ever so slightly, so as to get around the laws. Now with something as simple in design as the Bruce, how do you change it enough. Well lets go back a step. The original designer has spent many hours testing and coming up with what they believe to be the best design features. This is mainly in angles and shapes of flukes and angle and shapes of the shoe/board. All these atributes are what make the anchor work, work well, or work in a way that you sleep like a log at night in any blow. So what happens with the copies, well somebody wanting to make a quick buck, say's hey if I change a few of these design perameters, I can make a copy that will still work (note the first description in sentance above) and I can do it for half the price because I don't have to do R&D. Unfortunately, they fail in two area's. They don't understand the effort that has gone into the original creation and they either don't have to sleep at night under anchor, or don't even own a boat.
So to sum all that up, the copies are not usually as good as the original when it comes to those few famouse name leading designs.
Oh and yeeup, 110lbs is way over kill.
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Old 14-07-2005, 22:02   #3
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Sean,

Just my 2 cents here. I just had a terrible expeirience with almost losing my boat due to a faulty mooring shackle. I have learned the hard way that I will never - ever - skimp or try to save any money on anything that holds my boat. I just purchased a new 66lb Bruce and paid for it with absolutely NO regrets. I don't want knock offs, I don't want used stuff, I don't want anything but the best. I don't want to try to save any money when comes to saving my boat.

Do yourself a favor if you want to sleep at night - Buy the original ! You don't want to be the one with the horror story about anchors.
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Old 14-07-2005, 22:29   #4
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Thanks!

Thanks yet again guys... for some good advice and a consensus on this anchor.

I feel the same way about skimping on quality, but if something has as high of a quality, and costs less, I tend to buy it.

Case in point: My $5000 Hyundai Accent. Gets me everywhere a BMW M5 would, and costs 10-15 times less. (also not a single breakdown)

I was wondering if this anchor might be of the same type... the underdog that is not appreciated by the masses.

Also, is there any disadvantage to getting a 110# anchor over the next size down (66#)? In reading about anchors, I kept reading "the bigger the better". The 66# is just barely 1 step above what is suggested for my boat. The 110# is 2 steps above.

Thanks again...

Sean
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Old 14-07-2005, 22:31   #5
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The new Bruce...

Quote:
By Invitation once whispered in the wind:
I just purchased a new 66lb Bruce and paid for it with absolutely NO regrets.
Where did you get this anchor, by the way, and what was the cost?
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Old 15-07-2005, 00:11   #6
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The Genuine Bruce was designed for the North sea oilfeilds. It is a hardend steel. The poor mans substitutes often were mild steels.
The Bruce anchor works on a ruff rule of thumb of 1lb per ft of boat. A sleep easy rule of thumb was to then go the next size up. There is no harm in going bigger again, except the weight sitting on the nose, the difficulty of stowing either on the bow or in a locker, and the difficulty in raising should you ever need to manually.
I would rather have a genuine article of correct size than a substitute of twice the size. Surely the right size(or one step bigger) is not a lot more expensive than the big knockoff.
Another piece of interesting info, a 2tonne mooring block has the holding power of 800KG. A 40lb Bruce (and many others of good names)correctly laid and dug in has a holding power of several tonnes. It has been suggested as much as 8tonnes, but I suspect it depends on ocean floor make up.
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Old 15-07-2005, 02:17   #7
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Re: What about THIS anchor??

Quote:
ssullivan once whispered in the wind:
http://www.sonsetmarine.com/index.as...TS&Category=16

Has anyone had experience with this type of anchor? I wanted a heavy Bruce for the new 45' 26,000 displacement boat we just bought.

Is 110 lbs overkill? Should I go for 66 lbs instead?

And more importantly, why would this Bruce be so much less than the others I see for $1000 out there?

Thanks folks.
110lbs is way overkill IMHO.

On a 47ft 30,000lbs boat we have a 60lb CQR as primary with an all chain rhode [snubbers of course]. That is more than adaquate.

Based on the studies I have been reading if I was buying from scratch I would probable pick a 66lb Spade or Delta as a primary with others as back-up. The Bruce does not seem to do really well overall. Check the Practical Sailor studies of the last 4-5 years or so on anchors. Spade and Fortress seem to come out best with others closely following. Our back-ups are an aluminum Spade A140, and two Fortresses [big and bigger].

Food for thought.
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Old 15-07-2005, 04:19   #8
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Thumbs down Sean

The anchor your showing in the add is made in China. A true copy of the bruce but a lower grade of metal and galvinize.

As for anchor suggestions, I swear by the Delta! And the 30Kg would be plenty!
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Old 15-07-2005, 05:21   #9
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Sean, Check out these. Rocna.com
They are available over your way as far as I understand.
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Old 15-07-2005, 06:43   #10
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Plus one more. http://www.anchorright.com
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Old 15-07-2005, 10:33   #11
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Main reason for the popularity of the bruce is not its holding power, but the easy stowage on the bow. Personally I would rather have an anchor designed for its holding power. I have a bruce and a danforth.
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Old 15-07-2005, 11:53   #12
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Absolutely...

Yes, I am definitely looking for a primarly anchor with huge holding power. Since we are moving aboard, and will be living on the hook, I am really trying to find an all-purpose anchor that will match or outperform a well set up mooring. To me, it's worth more than our insurance policy.

I am hoping to buy the right one so that in the event of a large storm, I could use this anchor (and the 2 CQRs already on the boat) to hold the boat in place regardless of wind and seas.

Currently, I have a 45 lb CQR on 200' of chain, and a 35 lb CQR on 300' of nylon (w/ 12' of chain).

I'm trying to have 2 beefy anchors as primarys for living on the hook. The information out there is confusing (as it is with generators). Different sources say different things about which anchor is best for all around general use.

I looked at the Rocna and at the other links. Which is best for mud, shells and occasional sand?
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Old 15-07-2005, 13:31   #13
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Re: Absolutely...

Quote:
ssullivan once whispered in the wind:

I am hoping to buy the right one so that in the event of a large storm, I could use this anchor (and the 2 CQRs already on the boat) to hold the boat in place regardless of wind and seas.

Currently, I have a 45 lb CQR on 200' of chain, and a 35 lb CQR on 300' of nylon (w/ 12' of chain).

I looked at the Rocna and at the other links. Which is best for mud, shells and occasional sand?
IMHO

Given that you already have two plow style anchors what I would do is add a Fortress to the mix. They are absolutly one of the best in mud and sand. My thought would be a FX37 with a chain/nylon rhode. I would also consider adding additional chain to the 35lb set-up -- maybe go to 40 ft or so. another advantage of the Fortress is that they break down so storage is easier if that is an issue for you.
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Old 15-07-2005, 19:54   #14
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A heavy anchor is not the only answer, the size of the chain will also make a big difference to the safety. I reckon 30m of 10mm (3/8") followed by a reasonable length of nylon anchorplait, is better than 60m of 8mm (5/16"). The heavier chain will help to make the anchor dig in, and will also play a bigger part in damping any oscilation on the anchor rode.
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Old 15-07-2005, 22:35   #15
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Firstly, sorry Sean, I have no direct experiance with either anchors, apart from seeing them in shops and at the Boat show.
Secondly, for a boat of your size and anchor size, I would consider a 10mm)3/8" chain as minimum.

I won't go into the details of anchoring, as it gets thrashed to death on eavery occasion it can, but I will explain the "How's" of what makes a good anchor.

OK, firstly, there is NO one "works on all bottom types" foolproof design solution. Each design lends itself to be better in one form of floor material than another. So what are the requirements.
Ultimately, it is the speed and ability to dig in and "set". It is important to understand that the anchor itself is not what keeps you in place. It is its ability to hold as much ocean floor as it can. It is the ocean floor that is holding you in place. The deeper you can bury the anchor into the bottom, the greater the holding power it will have. This is where each design difference shows up. How fast can the ancor bite and dig down into the bottom. That speed is determined long before the anchor hit's the bottom. IT can be determend by how the anchor settles down through the water. Some designs go as far as 'flying" the anchor out from the bow and most designs all try to have the anchor reach the bottom in at least the right attitude. That's up the right way ready to bite in. The next important part is the biting in. The anchor has to have the right degree of attitude to dig and bury itself as fast as it can. However, to steep an attitude and it acts like a dredge, it won't sink down into the bottom, just buldozers itsself. To shallow and it act's like a plough and once again, won't sink down. Hard bottoms require a point, Hence the CQR etc being excellent choices, soft bottoms require area. Hence a Bruce is unrivalled in a soft mud bottom. Rock will make all the above uselless.
The chain plays just as important a role. Many think of it as just the part that connects the boat to the anchor. But the chain does much more. Correctly weighted to the anchor, the anchor will "fly" to the bottom. Too heavey and the anchor will be draged to the bottom and land wrongly, sometimes upside down. This then takes time to set. The chain also acts as a means of keep the attitude correct, so as the anchor sinks in faster. Once again, to heavey an d the anchor fluke drags on the bottom, too light and the anchor is lifted. The chains other important role is to act as a shock absorber. The chains mass has to be lifted off the bottom before the load comes onto the anchor and that load has to be kept in the right direction the the anchor, so as the anchor just wants to keep digging doen and not up and out.

So when you understand all those things, you view anchors in a different light. All demo videos can make an anchor look great, but with a little knowledge, you can make a fairly quick judgemnt yourself as to will an anchor looks like a good start or not. As soon as I see some knock off, I see imediately if the copier has a clue or not.
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