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Old 24-03-2008, 09:59   #16
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These guys ought to take a page of sportsmanship and rules from unlimited hydroplane racing.

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Old 24-03-2008, 10:08   #17
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America's Cup update: Oracle offering Swiss defender Alinghi a chance to race | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press

Personally, I love the America's Cup, but I won't be watching this time. It won't be the same with cats/tris. IMO they have ruined a wonderful tradition. Typical American strategy.....use the courts to gain an advantage, instead of settling it on the water.
I am not being a 'defensive American' but it was New Zealand that started the Americas Cup down this path. Dennis Connor had won with the 10-meter Stars & Stripes. New Zealand came along and challanged with a 17+ meter boat. Obviously with the more-than-double length, New Zealand would have enjoyed a tremendous advantage with hull speed. Lacking the time to put together a similar boat, Connor responded with a catamaran.

32nd America's Cup Official Website - 1988 - KZ 1
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Old 24-03-2008, 10:09   #18
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If the deed just requires "ten months notice" and does say how fast that notice has to be given--then the Swiss are simply following what a poorly written deed says, and that has to be given to them until and unless the deed is modified.

Personally I think the America's Cup was ruined when they decided competitors no longer had to arrive on their own bottom, i.e. by sailing to the race site. I'd like to see THAT term reimposed, to ensure the boats were designed to SAIL not just play.
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Old 24-03-2008, 11:30   #19
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Not only on their own bottom but with a crew that holds a passport for the flag the boat is flying.

Multi's have NO place in the AC. Connor should have never done it.
Give them their own race.
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Old 24-03-2008, 11:47   #20
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Multi's have NO place in the AC. Connor should have never done it.
Give them their own race.
I agree. However, New Zealand already had their boat built when they issued their challenge. Rather than run the 10-meter Stars & Stripes from the previous contest and lose, Connor responded as best he could. He didn't have the time to raise $$$ and build and test a 27-meter boat.

I also agree with the comments about sailing on their own bottom.What an incentive to work hard for the win and have home-field advantage for next time!

Perhaps a rule change where the AC committee determines the boat type.
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Old 24-03-2008, 11:56   #21
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If the deed just requires "ten months notice" and does say how fast that notice has to be given--then the Swiss are simply following what a poorly written deed says...
NOPE. BMW Oracle issued their challenge last year, more than ten months in advance of this October's proposed race schedule.
Alinghie chose to fritter their time away on a legal (court) challenge, rather the preparing a boat to race.

Of course, I doubt the originators anticipated a Corporate Purpose Built race machine, as they were gentlemen yachtsmen, racing their personal boats.
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Old 24-03-2008, 12:02   #22
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If the deed just requires "ten months notice" and does say how fast that notice has to be given--then the Swiss are simply following what a poorly written deed says, .

LOL
They didnt expect boats to be built specially for the race. The original America was about 80 years old at the time of the race, i believe.

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Tacking duels are the most exciting part of the race. With multis that could get pretty boring.

As snueman says, its all about match racing.

Its good to remember what match racing is all about - better sailors. Plus the ability of better sailors to win with a slightly inferior boat.

With Match Racing speed is not the element that wins the race over all.

For anyone who has not had some serious match races I commend you to do some. They are totally different to fleet racing and, after a while, can be great fun!

As a note harking back to Australiaís win in 1984 (so long ago!) with the then 'revolutionary' winged keel. If you look now at the number of boats with winged keels its obvious that its advantage was minimal. What was telling was the psychological impact affecting the sailing by each crew.

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PS we dont talk out Kookaburra 2 sinking in a subsequent challenge!
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Old 24-03-2008, 14:27   #23
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I was going to say "Bring back the J Class yachts".....but of course they were the result of rule changes / progress and in their time (and still!) were hideously expensive

Some nice history here......

http://www.cupinfo.com/en/jdetails1.php

But style simply cannot be bought........it's a question of taste


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Old 24-03-2008, 14:34   #24
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Say whay you want about the whole legal thing with the AC, but many AC pundits feel Alinghi/Bertarelli brought this on himself by proposing a one sided protocol, favoring the defender, though a sham yacht club (created specifically to approve such protocol).

Lots feel BMWO/Larry Ellison is in the right here.

As much as I would like to see racing action, these legal/PR squabbles between the teams are kind of amusing.
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Old 24-03-2008, 14:55   #25
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Say whay you want about the whole legal thing with the AC, but many AC pundits feel Alinghi/Bertarelli brought this on himself by proposing a one sided protocol, favoring the defender, though a sham yacht club (created specifically to approve such protocol).
Lots feel BMWO/Larry Ellison is in the right here.
Including the court that heard the case, & it's appeal.
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Old 24-03-2008, 15:59   #26
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Either way it should prove interesting.
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Old 24-03-2008, 16:08   #27
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So the objection is that they will race multihulls? Well, don't worry, the only multihull class in the olympics has been scrapped in favour of racing half a dozen indistinguishable monohull classes.
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Old 24-03-2008, 16:24   #28
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So the objection is that they will race multihulls? Well, don't worry, the only multihull class in the olympics has been scrapped in favour of racing half a dozen indistinguishable monohull classes.
Believe it or not, I signed a petition protesting that move. I got it in my email box several months ago from my old boat club on Lantau Island in Hong Kong, where I raced a Dart 15 catamaran (very poorly, I might add!).
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Old 24-03-2008, 16:59   #29
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Competitive progress is all about pushing the limits of not only technology but also the technical rules of sporting events.

If the evolution of Americas Cup yachts becomes a fleet of Cats, then Tris, then Hydroplanes powered by huge kite sails 1000ft in the air, then great! I look forward to the show! (It will be better than watching grass grow)
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Old 24-03-2008, 17:15   #30
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Typical American strategy.....use the courts to gain an advantage, instead of settling it on the water.
I believe that if you were aware of the whole story, rleslie, you'd come to a different conclusion.

Bertarelli, at the finish line of the last A-Cup, accepted the "challenge" of a non-existent yacht club for the next iteration of the Cup races. This was a pre-cooked sham, designed to control the timing of the next A-Cup and, especially, the venue.

It wasn't just Ellison's BMW Oracle team that objected to this blatant departure from the Deed of Gift. The Kiwis and Ozzies, along with other interested challengers, objected, but it was Ellison who took the battle into the New York courts (New York has jurisdiction in America's Cup matters) to assert the challengers' rights.

Having previously entered his own challenge for the A-Cup in the event he prevailed in court, Ellison and BMW Oracle had put a date of July 2008 on the next event, and named multihulls (90' x 90') as the platform. Before the court decided the case, BMW Oracle and Allinghi had come to a mutual agreement that the race would be moved back to October '08, since July '08 would be impossible.

When they lost the court decision, Allinghi disavowed the October '08 agreement. It is unlikely that Allinghi will have built a vessel and have it on the starting line by this October, but nothing BMW Oracle has done to this point has been outside the stipulations of the Deed of Gift, nor sneaky, nor underhanded, nor, for that matter, "typically American," as far as I can tell.

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