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Old 23-03-2015, 12:51   #121
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Re: What a dump marina

I think a big part of the fear of anchored boats is the assumption that the occupants are dumping their garbage and sewage in the water. And for many liveaboards anchored for long periods, this probably is the case.

Personally, I would think putting a time limit on anchoring in one spot would take care of most of the objections, but this is much harder to enforce than just prohibiting anchoring altogether.

And of course, since I can't vote in Florida, I really have no say in the matter other than not going there.
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Old 23-03-2015, 22:57   #122
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Re: What a dump marina

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Wouldn't part of the issue be about where the derelicts come from?
But no one wants to deal with the underlying issues as doing so is much more expensive and too "theoretical" for most people as they'd rather kick the can down the road.

Also it is funny how some called my posts "not thoroughly thought through" while their attitudes toward anchored liveaboards are in fact not thoroughly thought through. Florida, due to its climate, geography, etc. has always been and in the foreseeable future will always be a magnet for hobos, economically marginalized, n'e'r do wells and such. Yet these "thoughtful people" keep moving there with the idea that they will "clean up the place" and keep their water views pristine and free of what they consider derelicts. But the idea that they should've thought of this beforehand, BEFORE moving to Fl and buying a waterfront place with derelicts in fornt of their view never occurs to them, thus it is of course me who does not think things through, not them.

It's actually nothing more than the typical gentrification issue we see all the time when "up and coming neighborhoods" are being taken over by the well heeled. This one just happens to have waterviews and derelict boats as an issue while more urban ones have "too many liquor stores, street panhandlers and hookers" as issues for their new wealthier residents.
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Old 29-03-2015, 19:29   #123
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Re: What a dump marina

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please spare me. you can smell key west from 10 miles out. fun things to say like watch me puke beer on the street? or look how i can live in a derelict boat and not have to wash my clothes or body for weeks at a time? right.
COOL! Another person to stay out of Key West is fine for me! Where is good enough for ya, Kennebunkport?
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Old 30-03-2015, 09:13   #124
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Re: What a dump marina

WOW, this discussion has been going on a long time. American settlers have been complaining about dirty Indians in and around 'their' property for quite a while now and the only solution to date is to move them out.


Since no one owns the water in America laws concerning anchoring are somewhat pretentious. Laws concerning pollution are not but are sometimes misguided by pretentious people.


A solution will come when a problem is well defined. This 'problem' is not well defined. And to throw a monkey in the works, think about President Obama, he is not very well defined and we can't find a solution.
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Old 30-03-2015, 09:54   #125
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Re: What a dump marina

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COOL! Another person to stay out of Key West is fine for me! Where is good enough for ya, Kennebunkport?
Looking at a chart, I don't see anything I'd even call an anchorage in Kennebunkport so not sure why you mentioned it? I had a lab partner my freshman year of college from Kennebunkport and it seemed to piss him off to no end that I had no idea where it was even though I'd lived in Maine my whole life! Key West used to be beautiful and still isn't always disgusting, but during certain times of year and in some pretty widespread areas, it smells an awful like the French Quarter during Mardi Gras, so almost any fishing harbor would be preferable.
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Old 30-03-2015, 10:22   #126
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Re: What a dump marina

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
I think a big part of the fear of anchored boats is the assumption that the occupants are dumping their garbage and sewage in the water. And for many liveaboards anchored for long periods, this probably is the case.
Thats a bad assumption. Most of the full time live-aboards I know here in the keys are heavily involved with preserving the environment because they like to swim, snorkel, and dive like the most of us. In fact, just about a month ago there was a huge Marathon "clean up the water" day and just about every LA was there. Many are working folks that make their living cleaning bottoms, working around the water, etc... so its not in their best interest to contribute to the problem.

Most full time live aboards live in a location that has pump out boats an a night-life. Like many folks, I've been up and down Florida now and I have not seen a location that has a high number of live aboards that is not near a municipal area that provides pump outs. With the vigilance of the CG inspections, you can be assured that the VAST majority of LA's are not dumping their tanks or anything else in the water.

Notice I said, MAJORITY, as there is always going to be a small minority that just doesn't care.
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Old 30-03-2015, 10:31   #127
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Re: What a dump marina

The anchoring issue is just like most issues, it is a few bad apples making the whole barrel rotten.
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Old 30-03-2015, 10:34   #128
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Re: What a dump marina

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
.... I think a big part of the fear of anchored boats is the assumption that the occupants are dumping their garbage and sewage in the water. And for many liveaboards anchored for long periods, this probably is the case.....
IMHO, you are absolutely right here. With someone anchored for an extended period of time, how do they get rid of the sewage i the holding tank(s)? Where's that pump out vessel? Not there so the poop is hitting the water, literally, and that stinks.

In the long run, debating the merits of something like this is a healthy mental exercise. Getting off the sofa and casting a vote for politicians who are open to listening to your thoughts is the way to go. Laws are laws until people work to change them.

I live in TX, but I own property in St Augustine just off the intracoastal and have fired off letters and emails (yes even snail mail) to everyone the that I could hoping that just one more voice might, MIGHT, make someone look at it again. It may well not, but I tried. Everyone should try even if you aren't a property owner - you could well be someone who brings your $$ to the state via vacations, cruising, etc.
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Old 30-03-2015, 10:48   #129
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Re: What a dump marina

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IMHO, you are absolutely right here. With someone anchored for an extended period of time, how do they get rid of the sewage i the holding tank(s)? Where's that pump out vessel? Not there so the poop is hitting the water, literally, and that stinks.
Marc,

Where exactly are you talking about in STA? Just south of the bridge? You know they pay $5 a pumpout right?

Unless someone can point out to me an area where long term anchorages are being flooded by sewage I'm not buying it. If you know where that is, please call the CG, they will inspect and do something about it.

I think you should look towards DisneyWorld for pumping tons of waste in the local system and where it ends up:

Now Endangered, Florida's Silver Springs Once Lured Tourists : NPR

or maybe cruise ships Florida loves so much:

EPA Delays Action as Ship Sewage Flows into U.S. Waters | Earthjustice

or maybe the waste from your waterfront homes:

Sources of Water Pollution
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Old 30-03-2015, 11:15   #130
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Re: What a dump marina

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Marc,

Where exactly are you talking about in STA? Just south of the bridge? You know they pay $5 a pumpout right?
It was more about perception than reality - the perception that "... that boat out behind someones house is putting poop in the water."

My property is in North Beach between A1A and the ICW - between 14th and 15th streets (Runs through the block).
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Old 30-03-2015, 11:55   #131
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Re: What a dump marina

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Thats a bad assumption. Most of the full time live-aboards I know here in the keys are heavily involved with preserving the environment because they like to swim, snorkel, and dive like the most of us. In fact, just about a month ago there was a huge Marathon "clean up the water" day and just about every LA was there. Many are working folks that make their living cleaning bottoms, working around the water, etc... so its not in their best interest to contribute to the problem.

Most full time live aboards live in a location that has pump out boats an a night-life. Like many folks, I've been up and down Florida now and I have not seen a location that has a high number of live aboards that is not near a municipal area that provides pump outs. With the vigilance of the CG inspections, you can be assured that the VAST majority of LA's are not dumping their tanks or anything else in the water.

Notice I said, MAJORITY, as there is always going to be a small minority that just doesn't care.
I think it depends greatly on which segment of the liveaboard population we are talking about.
- For the ones that keep a neat and tidy boat, you are probably correct. They likely use pump outs on a regular basis or head offshore for a sail and dispose of thier waste.
- For the ones that are floating wrecks, I'll give you 10-1 odds that most are not using the pump out and are making no effort to be environmentally sensitive.

Since the floating wrecks are the subject of this thread and the local authroities desire to clean up the place, you are wrong. Yes, it is largely a perception issue but as a tourist destination, people go or don't go based on perception, so perception is reality.
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Old 30-03-2015, 13:45   #132
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Re: What a dump marina

The homeless and hobos living on junk boats are probably not paying $5 per pumpout, they poop in a bucket and dump it overboard at night. They may not even have a working head and holding tank on their boats.
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Old 30-03-2015, 23:14   #133
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Re: What a dump marina

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I think it depends greatly on which segment of the liveaboard population we are talking about.
- For the ones that keep a neat and tidy boat, you are probably correct. They likely use pump outs on a regular basis or head offshore for a sail and dispose of thier waste.
- For the ones that are floating wrecks, I'll give you 10-1 odds that most are not using the pump out and are making no effort to be environmentally sensitive.

Since the floating wrecks are the subject of this thread and the local authroities desire to clean up the place, you are wrong. Yes, it is largely a perception issue but as a tourist destination, people go or don't go based on perception, so perception is reality.
Exactly how many 'wrecks' are we talking about outside of pump out areas? I'd like a figure.

Also, someone on this board name a place here in Florida where there is a large grouping of 'derelict' boats who are known to be dumping their sewage directly in the water. Not here in Marathon. Marathon is a managed anchoring area - to be here in the boot key you pay for pump out regardless of your use of the pump out. The people driving the pump out boat mark down the boat name and how much was pumped out.

Unless you can quantify the problem the perception that there are great number of 'derelict' boats pumping their heads overboard is fanciful.

I agree - a very very few bad apples are ruining it for everyone.

How about this Florida...

1) you are SO worried about water pollution give out free composting heads
2) get the CG to do regular inspections
3) Focus on those areas that are common free anchoring areas.
4) Have the CG attach a licensed lock on the head pump out valve, if its broken or moved between inspections there is a big fine.

There are a million ways to keep our water clean that doesn't include limiting anchoring.
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Old 30-03-2015, 23:35   #134
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Re: What a dump marina

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Originally Posted by zboss View Post
1) you are SO worried about water pollution give out free composting heads
2) get the CG to do regular inspections
3) Focus on those areas that are common free anchoring areas.
4) Have the CG attach a licensed lock on the head pump out valve, if its broken or moved between inspections there is a big fine.

There are a million ways to keep our water clean that doesn't include limiting anchoring.
The American poop police are bad enough, now you want poop Nazis?
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Old 31-03-2015, 00:28   #135
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Re: What a dump marina

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Exactly how many 'wrecks' are we talking about outside of pump out areas? I'd like a figure.

Also, someone on this board name a place here in Florida where there is a large grouping of 'derelict' boats who are known to be dumping their sewage directly in the water. Not here in Marathon. Marathon is a managed anchoring area - to be here in the boot key you pay for pump out regardless of your use of the pump out. The people driving the pump out boat mark down the boat name and how much was pumped out.

Unless you can quantify the problem the perception that there are great number of 'derelict' boats pumping their heads overboard is fanciful.

I agree - a very very few bad apples are ruining it for everyone.

How about this Florida...

1) you are SO worried about water pollution give out free composting heads
2) get the CG to do regular inspections
3) Focus on those areas that are common free anchoring areas.
4) Have the CG attach a licensed lock on the head pump out valve, if its broken or moved between inspections there is a big fine.

There are a million ways to keep our water clean that doesn't include limiting anchoring.
Based on traveling thru, I would say hundreds if not a few thousand.

I agree enforcement is the solution but then we hear about how it's just a ruse to get rid of the poor.
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