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Old 23-03-2015, 09:48   #106
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Re: What a dump marina

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There's a big difference between working for the government and sitting on your ass and receiving welfare and food stamps.
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So you are lumping the people who provide needed services to society by working for the government with welfare mothers? I worked hard in a skilled position for the government for 32 years and I don't think it's fair or even the least bit intelligent to equate people who are paid for their skills and labor with those who make babies for a government handout.

Perhaps you should sit back and think about this for a few minutes before you make your next post on the subject.
Yup, everything's Black and White these days, no shades of Grey...

So, I wonder where military families - who are increasingly reliant on food stamps at a rate that is outpacing that of the general population - fit into all this?

:-)

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The recent surge in food-stamp spending has prompted some critics to worry that the $76 billion program is creating an over-reliance on government handouts.

What these critics may not realize is that the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program is also increasingly relied upon by members of the U.S. armed forces, with patrons of military commissaries using food stamps to purchase $103.6 million worth of groceries in fiscal 2013.

That's a 5 percent rise from 2012, and almost double the $52.9 million spent in 2009. That's a faster pace of growth than the general population, since overall SNAP spending rose just 51 percent from 2009 through 2013, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

Why soldiers are increasingly relying on food stamps - CBS News
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Old 23-03-2015, 09:48   #107
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Re: What a dump marina

rwidman,
I do understand, just like the Social Security benefits I hope to get upon turning 65, even if I live to 100, I'll never get the money back that I paid in. But truth is the money I paid in was spent before I paid it in, it wasn't saved.
Whether I have earned it or not is irrelevant, its paid by the taxpayer.

My personal belief is that the "system" is being abused, but that is another topic, we ought to not hijack this thread anymore.
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Old 23-03-2015, 09:54   #108
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Re: What a dump marina

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OK, take me for instance, I'm Retired Military, and while I'd like to think I earned that monthly check, fact is the taxpayer is having to foot the bill for me, just as he or she is for every other person getting a check.
Not at all the same. You are recieving defered compensation for work provided.
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Old 23-03-2015, 09:58   #109
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Re: What a dump marina

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May be this was the case 40 years ago when you started working for the gov't. Today the system is totally out of wack. I have friends and acquaintances who are in IT industry clamoring to get into a cushy gov't job. Precisely because they can make 30% more than in private industry. Not to mention the fact that they will rarely be fired from a gov't job whereas in the industry firing is a constant threat. Same for engineers. One engineer buddy of mine waited 11 years for such an opportunity. Finally by accident at some wedding he was seated next to some union boss who got him in. My buddy had been happy as a clam in these past 4 years - verry little stress, the pay is 20% higher, the vacation time is much longer and the pension accrues much faster and on much better terms. Not to mention health insurance, etc.

So your example of being initially under paid in return for a decent pension is very dated. Or disingenious.
You are getting sidetracked. The point isn't if the govt has great efficency. The point is we need a system that gets rid of derelick boats.
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Old 23-03-2015, 09:59   #110
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Re: What a dump marina

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.............. So your example of being initially under paid in return for a decent pension is very dated. Or disingenious.
Or you just can't accept that you may have a jaded opinion of the government.

It's been said that it's a waste of time to try to teach a pig to sing and it just annoys the pig.

I'm done trying.
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Old 23-03-2015, 10:00   #111
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Re: What a dump marina

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Not at all the same. You are recieving defered compensation for work provided.
Exactly.
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Old 23-03-2015, 10:30   #112
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Re: What a dump marina

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You're choosing just one side of the equation out of many. That's my point. And perhaps so far it is you who only have thought one dimentionally of this issue. In the big picture and in the long run it does not really matter whether or not you did something productive for the gov't or sat on your as* and gotten a check. What matters is that huge segments of society, both productive and non-productive are relying on the gov't to provide for their daily bread. That's the real issue IMO, the one you are unwilling or unable to confront and think through it's consequences for our future as a society. In your version with which you are apparently OK our whole society will be either working for the go'vt or leeching off the gov't. I'm saying that this is not right and should be at least began to be though of as not right. As they say the first step to any recovery is to to realize that there is a problem. In my perfect world there would be a law saying that for each person gotten off of welfare there should be a corresponding gov't worker also off of their gov't pay.
Seriously that has to be one of the least thought thru post I have read in a long time.

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Old 23-03-2015, 10:36   #113
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Re: What a dump marina

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What would your solution be? Each of us buy our own aircraft and bombs to defend ourselves from other countries? Each of us build our own roads and bridges? Arm ourselves to protect against criminals? Do away with the educational system and let our children grow up without any marketable skills?
The military is doing alright now, except for the poor sods who are getting shafted after they get out: horrible health carer, hypocrisy by the politicians who send them to serve and then ignore them when they return, all the while shouting "Honor our Heroes," and making their families use food stamps and then trimming the food stamp budget!

We're getting altogether too close to "arm ourselves..." and the education system is a wreck. They stop arts, but even more important they stopped civics, both governmental and personal.

Many folks I know of have kids who have graduated college and HAVE no marketable skills, from courses/majors that would have had jobs a decade ago.

And we think derelict boats are a problem?

Where do we think the people ON those boats came from?
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Old 23-03-2015, 10:39   #114
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Re: What a dump marina

Big thread drift
This is not about how you get paid or live it is about the boats

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Old 23-03-2015, 10:48   #115
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Re: What a dump marina

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Big thread drift
This is not about how you get paid or live it is about the boats
Wouldn't part of the issue be about where the derelicts come from?
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Old 23-03-2015, 11:24   #116
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Re: What a dump marina

There coming from people not taking care of they're property and leaving them to sink.

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Old 23-03-2015, 11:57   #117
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Re: What a dump marina

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There coming from people not taking care of they're property and leaving them to sink.

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That is the issue in a nutshell and a perfect example. Its a lot less likely someone cares that the the guy/gal is out permanently anchored if his/her boat is ship shape. If these guys took some pride in their home then this issue would probably have much less attention from officials.

On the other hand... I was President/VP/Treasurer of a Home Owners association with just about 700 homes in Northern VA for almost 6 years. 99% were two parent homes with at least 2 kids, so myself and the rest of the board was in a position to represent about 2800+ folks in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods in the country to the county and state.

People would FLIP OUT that the cable company wanted to put a 8" by 8" by 12" box in their front yards. They went absolutely batsh*t crazy. Lets not even talk about those "dirty mexikans" moving in next door - you would think that world was ending!

The point is... if they get this crazy about a 64 square inch space in their front yard just imagine how they get with a truly derelict boat out back.
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Old 23-03-2015, 12:05   #118
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Re: What a dump marina

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If the boats in question were anything close to the same thing, your imagining would be right on the money. But in certain areas of south Florida, calling the things that are floating, sometimes with people living aboard and sometimes not, "boats," is quite a stretch. At one time (usually long, long ago), many of them were boats that you could sail or motor someplace on, but the ones that are being discussed here, usually haven't been moved in years and never will under their own power again. They are barely floating (sometimes sitting on bottom) collections of junk. As boaters, I don't think we have anything to gain by sticking up for their "right" to drop an anchor anywhere they please with no intention of ever pulling it up again. If floating junk collections like these were removed, it might be easier for land based residents in Florida to see that legitimate boaters (who actually sail somewhere once in awhile) anchoring in front of their property aren't a potential problem. I'm no elitist and certainly think there's room for all kinds of boats in our community, but at some point, the floating things we are discussing cease to become boats and are instead junk, and should be properly disposed of just like any other kind of junk should. If we rally to support these barely floating eyesores, can we really blame local residents if they group us in with them when they are considering local anchoring restrictions or other restrictive ordinances that will negatively impact us all? I think your observation that even the very wealthy enjoy seeing almost any boat that anyone on this forum would own anchored in front of their oceanfront property is true, but in Florida that is becoming less true because of homeowners legitimate fear of the nice anchorage in front of his house turning into a collection of derelicts that never leave.

Seems to me that there are ways of eliminating derelict boats, or requiring boats to move occasionally, that have nothing to do with eliminating them from some places altogether, but that would be accomplished in a different way.

The problem is that once you give local governments the ability to control and tax, then they usually begin to control and tax based on the whims of their local board. Have you ever seen your local board meetings? Most of the time there are one or two advocates on an issue, and nobody else has any idea about the real effects of a piece of legislation.

It's the rule of unintended consequences.
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Old 23-03-2015, 12:36   #119
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Re: What a dump marina

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Seems to me that there are ways of eliminating derelict boats, or requiring boats to move occasionally, that have nothing to do with eliminating them from some places altogether, but that would be accomplished in a different way.

The problem is that once you give local governments the ability to control and tax, then they usually begin to control and tax based on the whims of their local board. Have you ever seen your local board meetings? Most of the time there are one or two advocates on an issue, and nobody else has any idea about the real effects of a piece of legislation.

It's the rule of unintended consequences.
You are absolutely right to worry about that risk when government gets involved and I think your description of local board meeting is pretty spot on. One always hopes government will solve the problem with the fewest unintended consequences and as efficiently as possible but when does that ever happen? But, despite the fact that I am a boater and way more often than not, anchor out rather than use a marina, I can sympathize more with homeowners and the general public than I can with my "fellow boatowners" who keep for years and decades, something that was once a boat, making no attempt to keep their "boat" looking clean or neat, and never intending to move or make any repairs. I'd like to think of some other way to deal with this problem in places where it exists other than using government, but can't come up with any other entity to do the job.
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Old 23-03-2015, 12:46   #120
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Re: What a dump marina

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.......... Many folks I know of have kids who have graduated college and HAVE no marketable skills, from courses/majors that would have had jobs a decade ago. ...........
One would hope (but apparently one would be wrong) that anyone smart enough to get into college would be smart enough to take courses that lead to marketable skills. A doctor's degree in French Literature is unlikely to put bread on the table.
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