Well, there goes my trip to Cuba !!

[gaucho]

That's why I specified "easily". Im not saying it can't be done. The US Government doesn't make it easy or in many cases practical.

Originally Posted by Formosa Scott

Travel restrictions are normal, needing a passport is a restriction. I think you read this as a travel ban, it is not.

I respect other people's opinions Scott, but this just made me laugh while I was having breakfast ... any system is imposed; it don't matter if it is communism, socialism, democracy, capitalism or feudalism. There are different ways to impose one or the other. Neoliberal policies of extremely deregulated capitalism have proven to have negative effects for most of the world; including the US itself. Corporations have no soul buddy. We are human beings, with feelings, and needs. Capitalism sucks as much as communism does, because it looses the human perspective. Don't get confused by the 50s propaganda. Capitalism has sunk the world in poverty and hunger. **** that should have been gone by now with the technology and prowess to innovate that the human race has demonstrated. Don't give me this whole capitalism triumphs over communism. Different systems; both flawed. Only when people don't starve, when the world is not controlled by self serving powerful economies oppressing the rest (and self serving morons like Trump), can we call any system a goddam merit.

Free for all capitalism is a pyramid scheme buddy; there needs to be recruiting in the bottom end for it to work; today that even includes a whole portion of the US population and economic base. There need to be idiots buying into the "american dream", which is more about consumism and living in eternal debt. That's why there's less rich(er) people and more poor(er) people. Get your facts straight and stop drinking the kool-aid. They are raping you, and you are still wording 1950's propaganda.

Originally Posted by Formosa Scott

True Capitalism stands on it's own merits unlike Communism which is imposed.

[gaucho]

I don't believe Cuba controls Venezuela. Cuba can't control anything. Venezuela is sunk in it's own different problem. I think the Venezuelan regime has hit rock bottom. And they are on the way out. Understanding what happened in Venezuela also requires a profound study of latin america history. Neoliberal capitalist policies are what triggered the availability on a mostly poor Venezuela to embrace someone like Chavez. Regimes (and that includes Trump) need to be understood from the socio-economic situations that create them. This is not a matter of "systems" or true beliefs; people are starving, there is corruption and despair, someone like Chavez waltzes in and for a while changes the tune. Same thing will happen, from the reverse, now that a new democratic process begins in Venezuela after this regime falls (and it will fall, because the same things, from a different angle are happening: starvation, poverty, despair). This is not a matter of ideology; it's a matter of people being fed up.

Trump didn't win because most people belive in HIM, or the GOP for that matter. Trump won the election because people needed change. Generally people don't starve in the US. But for US standards, there is a lot of despair. Political systems are brewed by social and economic situations, not the other way around. Understand that, and you might have a better chance of understanding the world.

Originally Posted by John Holbrook

Here in Venezuela there is a lot of support for a Trumps changes on Cuba policy. Cuba controls Venezuela so they see the fall of the regime in Cuba as a path to their own freedom. About 70 people have died here in recent months protesting against the regime.

There are no saviors or messiahs. Nor Castro, nor Trump, nor Chavez, nor Leopoldo are going to save any other country. There are political systems feeding off the needs of the people. I wish as human beings we could learn a less greedy system, but a few are clearly very happy with the returns they get from the so beloved capitalist system.

[Tellie]

I wish as human beings we could learn a less greedy system, but a few are clearly very happy with the returns your beloved capitalism provides them.

Like sail boats?

[gaucho]

Originally Posted by Tellie

I wish as human beings we could learn a less greedy system, but a few are clearly very happy with the returns your beloved capitalism provides them.

Like sail boats?

Sailboats were invented a few thousand years before capitalism. Just saying.

Cut throat, highly deregulated capitalism has proven iffy at best. Look at countries like Switzerland, Sweden, Finland to take a peek at socially responsible capitalism. A step in the right direction.

Why do we still have to have this 1950s idiotic propaganda discussions of black vs white? Communism vs capitalism? There's a shitload of greys right in the middle; and they are doing much better for their people and their quality of life.

Shall we be more socially responsible there will be no sailboats for all! It seems this is what you claim.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by keith4001r

I won't debate you, but I used the word "demanded". I'm almost 60 years old and have never been asked for or had a bribe demanded. Of course my world view isn't as extensive as some, I'm a US citizen and have never left my country.
Additionally, I said that more research was in order.
Am I repeating myself? Yes, yes I am.

Ive lived outside the USA for over a dozen years (run businesses, built houses, have legal residency in 2 countries...) and travelled extensively all my life. I've never had a bribe "demanded" of me either...in any country. Thats not how it works.

Before passing judgement in isolation on the rest of the world, you really should gain some actual experience.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Tellie

Just because everyone else is doing it doesn't mean you shouldn't stand for something.

Mom

Like Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness you mean?

To me that means Big Brother not telling where I as a private citizen can travel.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by motion30

Just curious ,does anyone know of an event where the Coast Guard actually seized the yacht coming back from Cuba? I know they have the power to do that but do they actually take boats

Never heard of an actual siezure, nor jail time, just fines.

I suspect that the violation would have to be pretty aggregious to draw siezure/jail. Likely involving actually doing business w Cuba...the original focus of the embargo (not yachties).

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Formosa Scott

True Capitalism stands on it's own merits unlike Communism which is imposed.

You are confusing economic systems with govermental systems.

[John Holbrook]

It's seems that most Latin American countries have not had good run over the last few hundred years. First exploited by Spain, then by their own governments socialist or capitalist and criminal drug gangs in the case of Mexico, Colombia and Venezuela. Even the "liberator" Simon Bolivar was a fake according to the most famous socialist, Karl Marx. It seems Spain left a legacy of authoritarianism and anarchy.

Chavez was Fidel's student. Chavez's inner circle and security is mostly Cuban. Cuba has military advisors here advising Maduro. Venezuela sends Cuba fee oil. The greedy capitalists pre Chavez made venezuela and its oil riches an easy target for Fidel and Chavez.

Meanwhile in venezuela people starve... sad days.

Interesting article on Cuba and Venezuela and Trumps views.
http://www.laht.com/article.asp?Cate...icleId=2438384

Originally Posted by gaucho

I don't believe Cuba controls Venezuela. Cuba can't control anything. Venezuela is sunk in it's own different problem. I think the Venezuelan regime has hit rock bottom. And they are on the way out. Understanding what happened in Venezuela also requires a profound study of latin america history. Neoliberal capitalist policies are what triggered the availability on a mostly poor Venezuela to embrace someone like Chavez. Regimes (and that includes Trump) need to be understood from the socio-economic situations that create them. This is not a matter of "systems" or true beliefs; people are starving, there is corruption and despair, someone like Chavez waltzes in and for a while changes the tune. Same thing will happen, from the reverse, now that a new democratic process begins in Venezuela after this regime falls (and it will fall, because the same things, from a different angle are happening: starvation, poverty, despair). This is not a matter of ideology; it's a matter of people being fed up.

Trump didn't win because most people belive in HIM, or the GOP for that matter. Trump won the election because people needed change. Generally people don't starve in the US. But for US standards, there is a lot of despair. Political systems are brewed by social and economic situations, not the other way around. Understand that, and you might have a better chance of understanding the world.



There are no saviors or messiahs. Nor Castro, nor Trump, nor Chavez, nor Leopoldo are going to save any other country. There are political systems feeding off the needs of the people. I wish as human beings we could learn a less greedy system, but a few are clearly very happy with the returns they get from the so beloved capitalist system.

[gjordan]

It is odd that Trumps changing of the rules will help the Cuban Govt owned hotels because we are back to the old days of only organized groups can go, and they will stay in the Hotels that help the Govt. Watching PBS (the non insane channel) there was a good discussion on how the Cuban people were helped by Obamas opening up the travel rules. Did the Cuban Govt. get helped? yes but the average citizen in the non-Govt controlled tourist industry was doing much better. Is hurting the average person in Cuba a step forward for the US, or is it a step backwards to a policy that hadnt worked for the last 60 years????. ______Grant.

[John Holbrook]

Nope that's incorrect - Trump is banning Americans staying at military owned hotels.

Originally Posted by gjordan

It is odd that Trumps changing of the rules will help the Cuban Govt owned hotels because we are back to the old days of only organized groups can go, and they will stay in the Hotels that help the Govt. Watching PBS (the non insane channel) there was a good discussion on how the Cuban people were helped by Obamas opening up the travel rules. Did the Cuban Govt. get helped? yes but the average citizen in the non-Govt controlled tourist industry was doing much better. Is hurting the average person in Cuba a step forward for the US, or is it a step backwards to a policy that hadnt worked for the last 60 years????. ______Grant.

[John Holbrook]

Socially responsible capitalism is a good balance if you can get it. I'm Australian and I think we have the balance pretty good.

In the case of Switzerland with its secret bank accounts etc I would say it's socially irresponsible from an international perspective.

It's a shame to see a place like venezuela with the biggest oil reserves in the world which with a capilalist approach to oil, agriculture, tourism, etc could fund a fantastic social agenda.

Originally Posted by gaucho

Cut throat, highly deregulated capitalism has proven iffy at best. Look at countries like Switzerland, Sweden, Finland to take a peek at socially responsible capitalism. A step in the right direction.

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by gaucho

Sailboats were invented a few thousand years before capitalism. Just saying.

Cut throat, highly deregulated capitalism has proven iffy at best. Look at countries like Switzerland, Sweden, Finland to take a peek at socially responsible capitalism. A step in the right direction.

Why do we still have to have this 1950s idiotic propaganda discussions of black vs white? Communism vs capitalism? There's a shitload of greys right in the middle; and they are doing much better for their people and their quality of life.

Shall we be more socially responsible there will be no sailboats for all! It seems this is what you claim.

Please don't take this personal as it is a comment in general. As a small example, many people in Cuba are farming with Ox and donkeys pulling their plows and make a dollar or two a day. I'm sure your interpretation of the wrongs of Capitalism will ring true to their ears when you pull up in your 100k+ boat.

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Like Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness you mean?

To me that means Big Brother not telling where I as a private citizen can travel.

To me it has nothing to do with our government. It is Cubas government that bothers me. Just because you can does not always make it right.

[Group9]

Cuban citizens keep finding ways to sneak out of Cuba, so I don't see any reason American cruisers couldn't find a way to sneak in.