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Old 17-02-2009, 09:24   #31
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Originally Posted by seaclusion View Post
While there is no law that says you must carry ID, here in Florida we have a law that says an LEO can detain you for as long as he wants until you identify yourself or answer his questions to his satisfaction.

Richard
can you give me the state statute number please... thanks bunches..
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Old 17-02-2009, 10:58   #32
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Badfish-
There's an old joke that runs something like:
"Senator, why were you seen beating your wife last night?"
replies "I have never beaten my wife!"
"So, Senator, who was that woman you were beating last night?"

which makes me ask, when you say " When there's no Taliban boating on the rivers of South Carolina," does that mean you have specific knowledge of times when the Taliban ARE boating on the rivers of SC? And you've been withholding that information?

Sadly, the Fourth Amendment, which was written to ensure that revolutionaires and insurrectionists could transport weapons and documents without fear of search on the King's own highways, has been badly trampled. Boat owners, operators, and residents have no fourth amendment protections and damn few others.

"BAD COP, NO DONUT!" One of the best, and ballsiest, bumper stickers I've ever seen.
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Old 17-02-2009, 11:45   #33
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It is what it is....

They need to keep their Homeland Securty funding coming in. When there's no Taliban boating on the rivers of South Carolina, the authorites need to keep busy. You did win, although I know how frustrating it is. I've been on the business end of it a few times before. A few were me own fault, a few were wrong place wrong time. When it comes down to it, you're right, your word against there's... Yours rarely wins.

Be proud. They couldn't stop ya from reachin your goal.

Cheers

Bill
In some respects you are correct.. but in others........
If you read the original posters thread.. he was drug searched..

SC and Ga have over the past couple of years been seen as an increased area for drug smugglers to use.. florida is way to johnny on the spot..

I think you and everyone else on boats seems to forget that the minute you step on a boat, the laws change from land to maritime laws..
The 4th admendment gaurds against illegal search and seizure without probable cause..
the 4th amendment is a little more complicated than just the
actual amendment.. read here
Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


However Customs was invovled and that changes the game plan here.
Customs draws it authority from Title 19 of the CFR.
The Code of Federal Regulations

and yes, we do face a threat of terrorism via the coast line.. of course who is to say our good freind here is not a terrorist himself.. (joke)

for the record my son in law is 1/2 morrocan.. he looks arabic.. esp if he lets his hair grow.. he has been flagged at more than one airport.
Not only is he an US citizen, he was born in pennsylvania..
We Americans are very very fortunate that we are not in Europe..they live with terrorism daily.. we have had nothing since 9/11, due i nlarge part to our agencies that keep us safe..

for the record, if its not the coasties boarding there is nothing that says you cannot key your vhf and call the coasties for help.. or let them hear the entire conversation.. dhs and customs need your permission to board and they know that.. coasties do not need permission of you are documented. that is the key document your boat.. even a 27 footer is eligible for documentation..
fair winds..
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Old 17-02-2009, 14:10   #34
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If a cop is in court with four witnesses, who are all cops, how many admissable witnesses does he have? One, the cop with the most rank. Given his ability to make the lives of cops below him miserable, and limit their career advancement, if they don't coraborate his version of events, any statements they make are all statements made under duress and testimony made under duress is inadmissable.
There are ways to send what you are recording directly and instantaneously to your email address, so even if they do find your cellphone , they cant take away what you have recorded, and sent. Cell phones fit in a shirt or jacket pocket with a hole in for the lense. Just do the dialing before they get near. If you don't want to go thru the legal industry, just post it on youtube, after leaving the area, and let the **** hit the fan in your absense.
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Old 17-02-2009, 20:47   #35
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there be alot of cop haters aahhrrrrrr. So you always have the right to say no but they have the right to detain you for any reason they wish if they feel they need to. I have been stoped alot being that i sailed and boated alot in the st johns river out of jacksonville and always answered there question showed them what they asked for smiled and that was it. I dont think any stop was for more than 10 min. if your not doing somthing wrong they are in most cases quick and on there way. sorry you had that problem with that 1 bad person that turned into a group but you have to take some responsiblity for all that. at some point you should have started asking questions and asking for the person who was in charge and get some names and now that you have decided it was really not much about anything to the point that your not doing any thing about i doubt it was quite as bad as you put. being that it is a easy phone call to lodege a complaint and have it looked into. So yes there some bad apples out there but if everone dose what you did which is look the other way we all will have the same problem and the police will belive they are in the right. so do somthing about it.
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Old 25-02-2009, 14:56   #36
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If radio stations report the locations of speed traps, there can't be anything illegal about it. Thus we are free to report the movement of all cop vessels on VHF Channel 16, anytime we want to protest their heavy handedness.
If a cop has 4 winesses, and all of them are cops, how many admissable witnesses does he have ? One, the one with the highest rank. Given the ability of the cop with the highest rank to make an underlings life miserable, and to limit his career advancement prospects , he as an inordinate abilty to intimidate the underling into corroberating his testimony. Thus the testimony of the underling is, by it's very nature, testimony made under extreme duress, and testimony made under duress is inadmissable.
From there you go to the extreme unlikelihood of a cop ever facing any consequences for deliberately lying in court, the extreme difficulty of ever having him held acountable, compared to the average civilian, contrary to the equality provisions in the charter of rights, the close relationship between him and the prosecutor responsible for holding him accountable, the common practise of prosecutors deliberately delaying the proccess to give the cop a way out, by claiming unreasonable delay, and the way he has everything to gain and nothing to lose by lying in court ,and you have a lot of reasonable doubt as to the accuracy of the one remaining witness's credibility. Examples are everywhere.
Then there is the internet, where we can all be anonymouse international publishers.
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Old 25-02-2009, 16:04   #37
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Here is a good link to relative state laws for all 50 states in the US. Might be a good idea to have a look at the laws in the states you plan on transiting, as they can be quite different from one state to another. We are very lucky to have excellent Marine policing here in the pacific Northwest. Both our Coast Guard, and Local law Enforcement are very professional, and as a general rule - they're outlook on enforcement trends towards the 'non-intrusive' unless there is common sense probable cause to suspect something is afoot. You stand a good likelihood of being monitored by the coast Guard as you enter the Strait of Juan De Fuca near the international boundary - but gestapo-esque techniques reportedly employed in other areas (mostly furthur south) are thankfully not a apart of the normal routine in our waters. Coast guard boardings aren't really a dreaded experience in these parts, and the only time you experience any contact with local marine law enforcement is during events where there are obviously a lot more boaters on the water than is normal. Even then , contact is generally limited to safety. But the point is - it's a good idea to try to get a feel for what the 'climate' is like in the areas you intend to travel - and the attached list is a good place to start at least getting to know which rules are different than from where you're coming from. This could cause you to do whatever necessary to avoid some 'over-zealous' locales all together....

NASBLA - The National Association of State Boating Law Administrators
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Old 28-02-2009, 17:27   #38
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Listening to the mounties give their version of the mountie killing of a Polish imigrant at the airport , while watching the video tell a story that is the exact opposite of what they are claiming, doesn't give one much confidence in their "Profesionalism." They have carte blanch to lie in court or anywhere else, with no disincentive whatever.The Mounties have gone from national symbol to national embarassement rather quickly.
They have totally co -opted the complaints process ,to the point where the person formerly in charge has said it is a farce and there is no credible complaints proccess in existence.It is like complaining to the fox about your missing chickens.
Honest cops have no power to change anything . They are legally required to cover for their ******* colleagues, no matter how they may morally object.Only public political pressure can do that. Unfortunatly their power is so absolute, no politician has the balls to support reform openly. So we do whatever we can to slightly disempower unaccountable abuse of power, and the undermining of our freedoms.
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Old 01-03-2009, 21:35   #39
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yes and they are all like that, Id say this thread hs strayed a little.
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Old 02-03-2009, 17:36   #40
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Water cop

Absolutely not. Those who are like that are mandatory millstones around the necks of those who are not. How can they be expected to garner public support, on which they are so dependent , with such a handicap.
When someone goes for a cruise, and there is no evidence of any crime being committed, then the water cops should damned well leave them alone, and mind their own business. Whatever happened to the presumption of innocence? Harassing innocent people going about their law abiding business is a very counter productive waste of time, public support ,and the freedom and privacy people deserve. Who's brain wave was it to give the coast guard and cops quotas for the number of people they are required to harass in a given day. Fire that bastard. If it aint broke, don't fix it. We used to be able to accept that we would be left alone if we were not breaking any laws. Has crime been reduced since then? Are cops having an easier time of it, and more public support, since the change? The control freak bureaucrat's creed seems to be" If it aint broke, fix it until it is broke.
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Old 03-03-2009, 00:29   #41
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Yes and when you see a law enforcement officer dealing with someone who is obviously not a problem to society you should wonder what the real crooks are doing.Are they standing politely by waiting for him to get done?Are the real crooks too hard?Too dangerous?Too inconvenient-dont want to work nights?
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:29   #42
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Guys, I don't like blue suits (or begie ones) hanging around when they're not needed either, but when you DO NEED ONE, it can be damn nice to see them. Catch-22.

Cops are just human, good as well as bad. They often have a thankless job, even if they have themselves to thank for that. They are usually required to make "safety inspection" and "compliance" stops and if they don't show up with enough stops logged or citations issued--they get to inspect and certify port-o-sans next month.

So while we deal with the larger and longer issues of abuse and (here in the US) Fourth Amendment violations...it is more practical to deal with the questions of how to report abuse, how to make a stop/inspection as painless as possible, and when you're allowed to place the officers under arrest if they misbehave. (Yeah, in the US that's legal and arguably mandatory, but it won't be a pleasant experience either.)
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Old 03-03-2009, 16:31   #43
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In Canada you don't have a hope in hell of holding a cop accountable. When they commit very obvious criminal offences , like the one I filed a private criminal information against , the prosecutors, their colleagues delay any response as long as possible to give the cop an unreasonable delay defence. I was told that a cop didn't know how to dial directory assistance and ask for a lawyers number( where it had been listed for years) and that a cop didn't know how to look up the number in a phone book. At the time the attorney general was a friend of mine who I had known for 15 years and I was on the executive of his riding association. He didn't have the balls to hold them accountable ,or insist that ministry policy be followed.
So what chance does jJoe average have of holding them accountable.
What I'm suggesting is that it be made easier, or at least possible to get the slimeballs out and reduce the burden on honest cops.
Oh Yeah, and leave the law abiding public alone, if they want our support..
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Old 04-03-2009, 10:30   #44
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In Canada you don't have a hope in hell of holding a cop accountable. When they commit very obvious criminal offences , like the one I filed a private criminal information against , the prosecutors, their colleagues delay any response as long as possible to give the cop an unreasonable delay defence...
With all due respect - bullshit!

For instance, in Ontario the Ontario Provincial Police (OPP) Professional Standards Bureau is responsible for the investigation of public and internal complaints, pursuant to the provisions of the Police Services Act. Investigators have a maximum of 90 days in which to conduct appropriate investigations and submit recommendations for senior management (SIU Director) decision.

The Commissioner of the Ontario Provincial Police shall prepare a report of his or her findings and any action taken within 30 days after the SIU director advises the Commissioner that he or she has reported the results of the SIUís investigation to the Attorney General, and the Commissioner may make the report available to the public.
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Old 04-03-2009, 21:15   #45
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Don't ever try to video an LEO doing his job......You will get busted for interfering in some localities.
While it is true that some LEO's will object, and some may illegally charge you with interfering, it is not illegal to photograph LEO's at work.

Here is some info about the issue:

The Photographer's Right
Your Rights and Remedies When Stopped or Confronted for
Photography


Here is a link to a printable reference.

All that being as it may, I have encountered LEO's who were quite threatening and I had to weigh standing my line and having a major hassle or moving along.
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