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Old 21-01-2018, 18:17   #31
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Re: VOR boat in Fatal Collision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svlamorocha View Post
There is no such a thing as right of way when one of the boats is not a sailing boat.
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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
¿Qué?


Putting the 'right of way' bit to one side - and leaving it there - I suggest you take a look at Rule 18.
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Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
And everyone should revisit rule 5 and 6 while there.
...and some should just revist the COLREGS in general...maybe for the first time even!
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Old 21-01-2018, 18:23   #32
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Re: VOR boat in Fatal Collision.

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Originally Posted by CFS Klopas View Post
That's exactly what I said?


Nope, it wasn’t.
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Old 21-01-2018, 18:29   #33
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Re: VOR boat in Fatal Collision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
¿Qué?


Putting the 'right of way' bit to one side - and leaving it there - I suggest you take a look at Rule 18.
There is no "right of way" (a RRS concept) unless both boats are sailboats and both are racing.
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Old 21-01-2018, 18:59   #34
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Re: VOR boat in Fatal Collision.

Can you imagine the legal implications that are to follow. Bottom line is someone died. We see it happen all the time in offroad racing when a truck will come down awkward off of a bounce and go helter skelter. Nasty things happen near race courses.

Me thinks that with all that sail area up and going at max speed....it doesn't allow for much reaction time and maneuverability would be compromised. The side of the VOR yacht looks the USS Cole after her attack in Yemen. Ugly.
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Old 21-01-2018, 19:27   #35
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Re: VOR boat in Fatal Collision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svlamorocha View Post
There is no such a thing as right of way when one of the boats is not a sailing boat.
???? Dude ???
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Old 21-01-2018, 20:51   #36
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Re: VOR boat in Fatal Collision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svlamorocha View Post
There is no such a thing as right of way when one of the boats is not a sailing boat.
No such thing as "right of way" under International Collision Regulations.
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Old 21-01-2018, 23:47   #37
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Re: VOR boat in Fatal Collision.

Moving right along....

This will be sorted under PRC jurisdiction.... glad I'm not in the frame.....

How many serious prangs with RTW boats in the last 2 years or so.... Vestas x 2 plus Greenings at Cape Town....

Competence levels on these boats appears to be on a par with the USN...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/hq...-DDj1Hiuw=s750
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Old 22-01-2018, 01:16   #38
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Re: VOR boat in Fatal Collision.

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Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
Is there any info yet on which was burdened vessel in terms of right of way?
Certainly -- neither of them was either burdened, nor had right of way. That's one thing we know for sure.
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Old 22-01-2018, 01:19   #39
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Re: VOR boat in Fatal Collision.

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Originally Posted by NevisDog View Post
No, this is absolutely wrong.

No race is worth dying for. Going fishing for a living is always one of the most hazardous occupations but being killed by some supersonic yacht dodging through a 'fleet of poorly lit fishing boats' at warp speed - that's not on. That's not sailing. That's not sport. That's not seamanship.

I totally dissociate myself from that viewpoint. No excuses please.


No race is worth dying OR KILLING for.
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Old 22-01-2018, 01:37   #40
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Re: VOR boat in Fatal Collision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post

This will be sorted under PRC jurisdiction.... glad I'm not in the frame.....
Amen!

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
How many serious prangs with RTW boats in the last 2 years or so.... Vestas x 2 plus Greenings at Cape Town....

Competence levels on these boats appears to be on a par with the USN...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/hq...-DDj1Hiuw=s750
Again, amen. I suppose the problem is very similar in both cases -- the main focus in both cases is not on seamanship.

I don't, personally, have any problem with races held on "public right of ways", whether at sea or on land. It's exciting, adding a different dimension to the sport compared to doing it in the sterilized environment of a race course. Ah, the old Mille Miglia and Carrera Panamerica . . . But racing on a "public right of way" means you can't sacrifice seamanship and proper collision avoidance -- this is one of the challenges of such a race, just like weather (we're not racing in an air-conditioned dome). Races in harbors around cans require the participants to follow the Rules and not impede shipping as required, and to give way to starboard/downwind non-racing boats as required -- that's part of the challenge. Nothing different here.

In my opinion, more attention simply needs to be paid to how these crews are doing collision avoidance. There should be remote monitoring by race officials of AIS data from the boats, and severe penalties for COLREGS violations, up to and including instant disqualification. For a race like the VOR, there should be a qualified committee evaluating COLREGS compliance including violation of safe speed in crowded waters. To require the crews to do collision avoidance properly will just add to the challenge -- appropriate and, if you ask me, fun.
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Old 22-01-2018, 03:27   #41
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Re: VOR boat in Fatal Collision.

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Originally Posted by svlamorocha View Post
There is no "right of way" (a RRS concept) unless both boats are sailboats and both are racing.
Ah... understood ... 'pologies for any offence or confusion...
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Old 22-01-2018, 03:36   #42
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Re: VOR boat in Fatal Collision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svlamorocha View Post
There is no "right of way" (a RRS concept) unless both boats are sailboats and both are racing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
No such thing as "right of way" under International Collision Regulations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
Ah... understood ... 'pologies for any offence or confusion...
Yes, many commonly misuse the term "right of way", but it does not exist under the COLREGs.

So...lamorochas original comment about "right of way" read like another misuse of the term. Now that he's clarified the statement, I agree, no vessel had "right of way".
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Old 22-01-2018, 04:33   #43
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Re: VOR boat in Fatal Collision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Yes, many commonly misuse the term "right of way", but it does not exist under the COLREGs.

So...lamorochas original comment about "right of way" read like another misuse of the term. Now that he's clarified the statement, I agree, no vessel had "right of way".
LaMarocha explained it exactly correctly

And it's not a merely pedantic comment. Someone asked who had the right of way, and the correct answer, as given by LaMarocha and other is that for sure no one had the right of way. The question itself implies that someone was at fault and someone was innocent, as may be the case in a road accident, but that is not the case here. To continue the thought and say what I think many of us are thinking -- no matter how badly lit the fishing boat was, or what weird or incorrect maneuver the fishing boat may have made, the racers should not have run it down.
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Old 22-01-2018, 04:58   #44
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Re: VOR boat in Fatal Collision.

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
LaMarocha explained it exactly correctly

And it's not a merely pedantic comment. Someone asked who had the right of way, and the correct answer, as given by LaMarocha and other is that for sure no one had the right of way. The question itself implies that someone was at fault and someone was innocent, as may be the case in a road accident, but that is not the case here. To continue the thought and say what I think many of us are thinking -- no matter how badly lit the fishing boat was, or what weird or incorrect maneuver the fishing boat may have made, the racers should not have run it down.
I suspect, like many accidents, there will be some accountability shared among multiple parties.

Given that many poorly lit fishing boats are a known problem in the area, I think that accountability should extend up to the race organizers. With high speed sailing vessels converging on the area at night, a saftey escort/zone would have been a very good idea.

Even if the bow watch saw the poorly lit vessel, there may have been very little time to react at their likely speeds.
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Old 22-01-2018, 05:00   #45
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Re: VOR boat in Fatal Collision.

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
...and some should just revist the COLREGS in general...maybe for the first time even!
And, now that we've cleared that up, I retract my comment. Sorry.

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