Using headphones on night watch?

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Perfect example of NOT keeping a proper watch....

All those that "rationalize" that AIS, Radar, God will look after them, so they can watch a movie or read a book on Watch should do the math.

Using this collision, let's say a closing speed of:
14knts = 85,064 feet per hour, or 1,418 ft per minute which equals 473 yards

So the length of a football field (100 yards) is covered about every 21 seconds in this closing situation.

Now, your happy crew (who have not done their math) look up from thier book every 3 or 4 minutes,(unless its an exciting part!)... I hope you get my point!

I'm guessing, Cruisers average about 80% at anchor where reading books or watching music, or jamming out with headphones is great!

But for your Watch on that 20% underway.....do your job and keep us all safe!
Just sayin[emoji4]

All true, but after nearly gettin rammed by a boat that could cover a football field in 10 seconds, with nobody visible at the helm let alone on watch, THOSE are the guys I hope are really reading this thread.

[Wotname]

Has hand steering gone by the board these days.....

I love my autopilot and it removes the tyranny of the tiller but I am happy to switch it off for 10 or 30 minutes at a time and steer / sail the boat by hand while on a night watch.

Might not be for everyone but I don't find it boring, rather its a nice interlude of watch standing.

[Deck Scrubber]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Ok.... Twenty minutes!
Using the 14knt closing speed math = 28,360 ft.

This means you were blind to anything closing in on you for about 5.4 miles.

You were not keeping a good watch, you were just lucky!

Well for a start our boat does not go that's fast, on a good day we would do 6knts, she is a heavy boat.
Blind to anything I think not, we had 3 alarms set at 15nm, 6nm and 4nm, so nothing was getting near us without knowing, and yes I had complete faith in these systems.
We sailed the Timor sea, Arfura Sea, Caribbean Sea, Indian Ocean, South Pacific Ocean, South Atlantic Ocean and the North Atlantic Ocean with just two people on a 65ft boat, so I think luck has nothing to do with it.
I'm would not say this is poor seamanship by having a earbud in one ear, and if you read the last part of my post, I do say that it is common sense, and you will know when it is the right time to use them or not use them.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Deck Scrubber

Well for a start our boat does not go that's fast, on a good day we would do 6knts, she is a heavy boat.

Hi DS....not picking on you, just using your numbers and your honesty to make a point.

This is a pet peeve with me as a professional captain as well as a cruiser...specifically....
"Watch keepers not focussed on keeping a good lookout and doing other things to avoid boredom"

Whether you do 3 or 7 knots is not the point.
An unknown vessel on your reciprocal doing 12 knots can bring that joint closing speed to collision to 14+ knots, as per my example

Also, consider a floating container, or the last flare from someone drifting in a life raft, or the roots of a huge tree trunk, catching the moonlight....
these require a human eye to detect.

Electronic Nav Aids are just that. They are there to assist the watch keeper with long range decisions, not as a substitute for keeping a proper lookout.

I would still argue you were lucky as it is a big ocean and i think you know it is a slippery slope of safety, when you assume there are no dangers around and go below for twenty minutes.

My wife and I can also sail our 65' boat alone, but on long positioning passages, I ask friends to join us, specifically in order to maintain a proper lookout.
Anything else is a rationalization! [emoji4]

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Deck Scrubber

Well we made it, actually right around the world and we both watched movies, listened to music etc, with one ear bud in and one out, it's the perfect solution, you can ear what else is going on and it stops the boredom of a long long night watch.
Although we did have two alarms set, one on the radar and one on the AIS, so nothing was going to cross our path without us knowing.
For those of you who are concerned about too much going on, well yes there were rough times that you would be more careful about, but most are just so boring you will do anything to keep awake, I have cleaned the boat, cooked meals even washed loads of clothes, all on night watch, of cause I came up on deck every twenty minutes or so to check all was right in our little world, but weeks and weeks at sea can really get to you and can be very boring, so I say go for it, you will know when is the right time to use them and when not to.

Boats managed this way brings up the need of a bazooka, to wake their crew of their illusional self betrayal. Why go in the first place as you can watch the movies safely in your home too? Or if it's the places you stop why not fly there as you have nothing to do on water.

Not so kind regards from Teddy

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

Boats managed this way brings up the need of a bazooka, to wake their crew of their illusional self betrayal. Why go in the first place as you can watch the movies safely in your home too? Or if it's the places you stop why not fly there as you have nothing to do on water.

Not so kind regards from Teddy

Teddy, the problem does not get solved by insults but by helping with command awareness.

Whether it be a US Navy Destroyer, or a bored tanker crew, or a slow moving pleasure craft, maintaining proper Lookout discipline is not a popular endeavor for a conscientious captain
Commercial crews can be just as bad, finding any excuse to keep from looking out the window.
At least DC has some rational multi tasking justification for not doing other things on watch, but it is still not recommended.

Professionally with Deck crew. I tell them specifically what I expect, where to place the lookout, when to call me and "at no time should I ever walk onto the bridge and see both of them with their heads in the Radar."
Not so well received by crew who never had that high standard, but non negotiable!

If I ever walked onto a bridge and saw them wearing headphones or watching a movie....their bags would be on the dock 5 minutes after arrival.
Same on my own yacht.

[fxykty]

Gee wiz everyone, take a chill pill and stop with the dogmatic ‘proper watch keeping’ mantra. Headphones are a distraction just like any other activity and no worse nor no better. If headphones bother you then I assume you also don’t make tea, don’t make a deck inspection, don’t fill out the log, don’t record a weather forecast, etc. - just keep looking out - during your watches? Really?

If you want to follow commercial shipping watch standing rules go ahead. But don’t lecture to the rest of us. This is starting to sound like the drinking on passage thread.

The OP was referring to ocean passages and despite Pelagic’s litany of potential dangers it’s a damn big ocean enough that short spans of inattention don’t bring on any appreciable risk. Every skipper decides their own risk tolerance and there is no gold standard for watch keeping other than perhaps German U-boats when on the surface.

Peace all.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Every skipper decides their own risk tolerance and there is no gold standard for watch keeping other than perhaps German U-boats when on the surface.

Peace all.

Lol....Actually there is a Gold standard.... and then there is the rest.... you choose.[emoji4]

[Deck Scrubber]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

Boats managed this way brings up the need of a bazooka, to wake their crew of their illusional self betrayal. Why go in the first place as you can watch the movies safely in your home too? Or if it's the places you stop why not fly there as you have nothing to do on water.

Not so kind regards from Teddy

I'm only talking about long long ocean crossings, and i do things to keep myshelf awake, I know our boat inside and out, I know every noise and movement it makes, I am instantly aware if something changes and deal with it as we see fit.
I actually love sailing and love being out on the ocean.
our home is our boat, so yeah I do watch them safely in our own home. We are alive, have we ever hit anything? no, have we ever had any close calls? No. Hell we have gone weeks on end and never seen another vessel.
If we were in a busy shipping lanes or areas where there is a lot of boats of cause I would not be watching anything but the area we are in.
As for boats being managed this way, almost every long term cruiser is the same, so I would suggest not to go out there and risk life and limb.

And I will be not so rude and give you my kind regards.

[Deck Scrubber]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Hi DS....not picking on you, just using your numbers and your honesty to make a point.

This is a pet peeve with me as a professional captain as well as a cruiser...specifically....
"Watch keepers not focussed on keeping a good lookout and doing other things to avoid boredom"

Whether you do 3 or 7 knots is not the point.
An unknown vessel on your reciprocal doing 12 knots can bring that joint closing speed to collision to 14+ knots, as per my example

Also, consider a floating container, or the last flare from someone drifting in a life raft, or the roots of a huge tree trunk, catching the moonlight....
these require a human eye to detect.

Electronic Nav Aids are just that. They are there to assist the watch keeper with long range decisions, not as a substitute for keeping a proper lookout.

I would still argue you were lucky as it is a big ocean and i think you know it is a slippery slope of safety, when you assume there are no dangers around and go below for twenty minutes.

My wife and I can also sail our 65' boat alone, but on long positioning passages, I ask friends to join us, specifically in order to maintain a proper lookout.
Anything else is a rationalization! [emoji4]

That's ok, I am not insulted at all, we are all different and all have our pet peeves.
Mine is sticking to the rules, I absolutely hate people telling me what I should or shouldn't do. I can totollly understand where you are coming from and respect your way of sailing.
We all do things different wether it's right or wrong it's up to each individual I guess, but let me just state just because you may think I put lives in danger it's not really the case, I actually am a very safety conscious sailor and would never do anything that would put our lives at risk, I was only talking about dead calm nights and land being well over 100's of nm away, and if I spend 20mins at a time down below for whatever reason, trust me I am still well aware of what is going on, yes I may not see floating trees, shipping containers, and flares, but the chances of seeing anything like that is very slim, so maybe it is just pure luck, who knows, anyway I just wanted to clear that up.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by 664895ss

Hi, just wanted to get other opinions around the use of headphones while on night watch.

You sure got some opinions. You asked for them. You got them. *grin*


Although I'm a pretty rule-bound guy I don't have many rules for my crews (active delivery skipper). If I don't think someone has good judgment they won't sail with me. I can teach people to sail. I can't teach them to make good decisions.



My approach is to tell crew what my expectations are. I expect you to hear and react immediately to alarms. Autopilot kicking out and low oil pressure are priorities. I expect you to hear changes in systems (the aforementioned fresh water pump, bilge pump, etc. as well as changes in engine tones, wind over sails, and water over the hull). I expect regular horizon scans and review of electronic reporting systems. I expect situational awareness including information over the VHF.



Interestingly others in this thread have off-handedly referred to activities that ARE against some of my (<- note "my") few rules. No one leaves the cockpit without another person on deck on my boats. I've put people off for violating my safety rule. When you only have three rules you take them pretty seriously. *grin*

Originally Posted by bensolomon

I have interior red cabin lights so as not to lose night vision when I go down below for a drink or two used to head. For my chart work and logging I have a red headlamp, again, so I don't lose my night vision.

I disagree. See Night Vision - The Red Myth . This simple article aligns with my research including consultation with a renowned opthalmic surgeon. Light up the inside of your boat like a bordello if you want - you aren't doing much to protect your night vision.

Originally Posted by boatman61

Its all down to your risk tolerance I guess.

I agree. I find the idea that speakers are okay (what about the poor off-watch? Priority.) but headphones are not. Volume is more important. If a watchstander can hear all the alarms and the other desired ends I note above I don't care how, as long as they are considerate of the off watch. Rest for the off watch is another priority.

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I think it may be relatively harmless if you are far out to sea and out of the traffic lanes.

A disingenuous statement. Beyond TSSs there really are no shipping lanes anymore. Weather routing and shipping logistics are so good that ships can be anywhere. Sure there are places you can expect more traffic than others - there are always going to be choke points. But the concept of "shipping lanes" for ocean crossings and even long offshore runs is dated. It is every bit as useless as the concept of "hull speed" (there - that should wind someone up).

Originally Posted by fxykty

Much ado about not much at all, assuming we are talking about mature adults listening to music/pod cast/book at low volume such that ambient sounds are easily heard through the headphones? And we’re not talking about blasting said music/pod cast/book at volume set to 11?

Which goes directly to my point about judgment. I agree.

Originally Posted by mikesailin

Any time I expose myself to bright lights, I have one eye closed to protect its night vision.

This should be the exception rather than the rule. Why isn't your boat better organized? Why do you need to turn on a light at all? You should be able to dress, use the head, make coffee or tea from ambient light. If you are fully night-adapted you'll see fine. If you turned on the light in the head you can't see well for an hour so then you turn on the light in the galley. Clock starts over.



Have you looked around a modern boat below at night? Little LEDs everywhere. Radio and other instrument backlights. There is plenty of light IF you are fully night adapted. Heck the problem with movies is not the headphones - it's the light.

[The Salty One]

Originally Posted by 664895ss

Hi, just wanted to get other opinions around the use of headphones while on night watch. I've heard mixed opinions, including absolutely not, where one headphone in and one out and where both. I personally think noise cancelling ones would be an absolute no! Trying to alleviate the boredom but keep safe.

The wind and waves are you music. The effects of the same on your rigging, vessel and psyche are your education and understanding... a never-ending, ever changing book.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Beyond TSSs there really are no shipping lanes anymore. Weather routing and shipping logistics are so good that ships can be anywhere.

If that's the case how come we hardly ever see any mid ocean and hoe come they still follow the great circle routes? Think you're largely mistaken looking at the evidence.

[NormanMartin]

I love the sounds of the sea. Wish I could bring them ashore.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by conachair

If that's the case how come we hardly ever see any mid ocean and hoe come they still follow the great circle routes? Think you're largely mistaken looking at the evidence.

Your graphic tells the story. Ships can be anywhere. There are no lanes per se. Certainly there are locations you are likely to see more ships.

I see ships mid ocean. Why don't you?


If you only sail in fair weather with easy "weather windows" then yes, Great Circles are the norm. When conditions develop to become more sporty you'll see weather diversions.