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Old 26-10-2014, 17:25   #16
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Re: Up The Mast

The Grigri is for the repel. Most ascenders are great at going up, but a PITA to go down with. I use about the same setup... I use a harness and a set of Petzl climbing ascenders, with a Grigri just below the ascenders. The Grigri pulls itself through the line as you climb (climbing line should be tied off below). When you get to the top/ready to come down, disconnect the harness ascender (while standing in the footsteps) and then sit down in the harness, with weight on the Grigri. Disconnect the footstrap ascender, and repel down on Grigri Works great! I was recently up and down about a dozen times installing my radar (with no help from anyone!)Click image for larger version

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Old 26-10-2014, 23:03   #17
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Re: Up The Mast

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Originally Posted by Brian T View Post
The Grigri is for the repel. Most ascenders are great at going up, but a PITA to go down with. I use about the same setup... I use a harness and a set of Petzl climbing ascenders, with a Grigri just below the ascenders. The Grigri pulls itself through the line as you climb (climbing line should be tied off below). When you get to the top/ready to come down, disconnect the harness ascender (while standing in the footsteps) and then sit down in the harness, with weight on the Grigri. Disconnect the footstrap ascender, and repel down on Grigri Works great! I was recently up and down about a dozen times installing my radar (with no help from anyone!)Attachment 90392


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The grigri looks like a great way to get down. Doesn't twist the line at all. I wanna try one some day. Meanwhile a carabiner hitch works good enough for me.
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Old 27-10-2014, 00:57   #18
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Re: Up The Mast

...yeah I'd probably use a carabiner hitch if I didn't already have a Grigri in my rock climbing kit The Grigri adds a level of protection (especially while holding someone's life on a rappel) in that even if you let go of everything for some reason, the cam clear locks closed (like a seat belt) and holds the weight until released with the brake. Kinda nice knowing there's always something holding on


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Old 27-10-2014, 06:54   #19
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Re: Up The Mast

Not to beat a dead horse, but seriously, going up the spar (or anywhere else high) is more about; Technique, Keeping a Cool Head, & Knowledge (especially of what can go wrong, & how to fix it right then - without a fuss), Than It Is About Equipment.
- SERIOUSLY ponder that, prior to going aloft, especially if you're going to be doing it without an experienced hand/mentor there, when you're doing it.

And I say this, because for example, I could comfortably go aloft for $10 worth of line, webbing, & carabiner (assuming the boat had 2-3+ serviceable halyards on the front side of the mast).
It wouldn't be as comfortable as if I had my custom rig by any means, but for 30 min. to fix something, yeah, no problem.

Also, I'd highly suggest doing a bit of light reading here Brion Toss Yacht Riggers, Sailboat Rigging and again, there are some good ideas & equipment in the other links which I posted in various parts of this thread.
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Old 27-10-2014, 07:13   #20
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Re: Up The Mast

Not sure if this article has been discussed so far. But makes for a good read:

http://l-36.com/mast_climbing.php
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Old 27-10-2014, 09:55   #21
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Re: Up The Mast

Quote:
Please pardon my lack of climbing knowledge. If you use an ascender for your harness and another for your footstraps, where does the Grigri come into play? And the idea of having an experienced climber do a hands on lesson is a great idea. This is not equipment I am familiar with.
Not quite right. You use one ascender on the foot strap and one grigri on the harness. They are both used to climb up: move the ascender while bending the knees, then lift the halyard on the grigri while standing up.
To descend, lower the ascender as far as you can reach, then using the grigri in the rapelling mode.
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Old 27-10-2014, 10:19   #22
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Re: Up The Mast

Mwhahaha ... everyone here is wrong.

Well ... not really, but there is good, better, and best.

I look to what the climbing professionals use ... and bought a Petzl Advanced RAD kit ... basically this: Tree Stuff - Petzl Advanced RAD Kit

It's a single line ascent/descent system, there is no change over to descend, and you can clip in mid-line. Their cheaper version substitutes in a grigri for the rig descender. I bought instead a RIG ID descender ... which is the next model up. Set up properly it's idiot proof ... the descender even has a locking "panic" override in case you bump something on the way down.

I ALSO USE climbing rope, not halyards!!!!!

Climbing rope is dynamic ... it has a bit of spring. Halyards are static, designed for no spring or stretch. Anyone who climbs for a living (rope access guys) will not climb on static rope because it is dangerous. The shock from a 2m fall onto your gear (uncontrolled descent) on static rope is enough to break your back!

Worth thinking about, that.

J
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Old 27-10-2014, 11:19   #23
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Re: Up The Mast

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I ALSO USE climbing rope, not halyards!!!!!
Climbing rope is dynamic ... it has a bit of spring. Halyards are static, designed for no spring or stretch. Anyone who climbs for a living (rope access guys) will not climb on static rope because it is dangerous. The shock from a 2m fall onto your gear (uncontrolled descent) on static rope is enough to break your back!
Where in the system could you fall 2 meters? If you use a 2 halyard system (grigri one on and ascender on the other) you couldn't possibly fall more than about 30cm. The height of one step up.

There are two reason to use 2 halyards rather than one. The first reason is for safety with no added inconvenience. The second reason is that by using 2 halyards you don't have any issue of the devices locking against eachother. This can happen with 1 halyard. Of course 1 halyard is possible, but not as desirable.
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Old 27-10-2014, 15:15   #24
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Re: Up The Mast

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Originally Posted by jannw View Post
I look to what the climbing professionals use ... and bought a Petzl Advanced RAD kit ... basically this: Tree Stuff - Petzl Advanced RAD Kit

It's a single line ascent/descent system, there is no change over to descend, and you can clip in mid-line. Their cheaper version substitutes in a grigri for the rig descender. I bought instead a RIG ID descender ... which is the next model up. Set up properly it's idiot proof ... the descender even has a locking "panic" override in case you bump something on the way down.
The main differences between the Grigri and the D21A rig are:
- the weight 170g (0.37lb) / 380g (0.84lb)
- the price 66.9 / 115
- the fact that the Grigri is intended for rock climbing and the D21A is personal protective equipment designed for professional use: it's illegal for a professional to use a Grigri.

The rigger who tuned my rigging used a D21A or an IDS (530g, 163).

Alain
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Old 11-11-2014, 01:01   #25
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Re: Up The Mast

...I second the notion to make sure that you use a dedicated climbing rope. Not just because they're dynamic, but also because the teeth on the ascender are very aggressive, and action of the descender are very intense. I wouldn't want to be putting that kind of chafe on my halyards!


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Old 11-11-2014, 06:08   #26
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Re: Up The Mast

I have been going up and down masts for forty years and by far the safest, quickest and single handed way I have ever done it is with mast steps.
If Im on my own I use a harness and clip on as I go, or if Im going to be up for a while I climb up with a chair harness and hook it to a couple of steps. If I have a helper they tail a halyard round a winch.
If the boat is under sail and healing mast steps are the safest, most positive method.
I can be up and down a mast before most rope climbers have set up the tackles.
If you are working up there, like drilling or unscrewing something, you use the steps to hold yourself to the mast instead of having to hold on, or wrap your legs round the mast.
There are many different types, folding steps, wire, steel, aluminum, to suit all preferences and budgets.
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Old 11-11-2014, 11:41   #27
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Re: Up The Mast

Found it is way way easier to climb with ascenders using a low stretch rope. Switched the main halyard from StaSet X to a Dyneema cored line and climbing went way faster and easier not having to fight the stretch of an all dacron line. Don't worry about falling any distance as I always use a safety line attached to another halyard which limits any possible fall from ascender failure to a foot or two. The Mast Climber ascenders have not degraded the cover of the line at all but they are a positive clamp system that doesn't slip and has to be moved up or down the line as needed. No experience with a GriGri which may abrade the rope but doubt wear with rock climbing ascenders would be an issue. You'd have to make it a religion going up and down the mast constantly to cause significant wear.
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Old 11-11-2014, 17:11   #28
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Re: Up The Mast

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Originally Posted by Alistairnz View Post
I have just ordered this set up Solo mast climbing equipment - Aloft Alone

I do a lot of work alone and need a safe way to get up a rig quickly and safely. Was really impressed by this set up at the Boatshow here recently.


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Had mine for a few months now, great bit of kit...
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Old 12-11-2014, 10:48   #29
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Re: Up The Mast

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Originally Posted by jannw View Post
Mwhahaha ...
I ALSO USE climbing rope, not halyards!!!!!

Climbing rope is dynamic ... it has a bit of spring. Halyards are static, designed for no spring or stretch. Anyone who climbs for a living (rope access guys) will not climb on static rope because it is dangerous. The shock from a 2m fall onto your gear (uncontrolled descent) on static rope is enough to break your back!

Worth thinking about, that.

J
In the climbing/mountaineering community there are two types of rope: Dynamic and Static.

Dynamic rope is used for leader climbing where the leader is climbing above the nearest fixed point on the rope and uses the large fall factor (ratio of rope length to the belayer to the potential distance of fall) to cushion a fall. Dynamic rope is "stretchy" and can be bouncy and difficult to use ascenders on when starting a long ascent. More expensive dynamic ropes are "tempered" so that the stretch at body weight is low but for falling forces they start to stretch more easily (i.e. they have nonlinear elasticity).

Static climbing ropes have very little elasticity and are used as fixed lines for ascending or for hauling supplies. They are much less bouncy and easier to jumar (ascend) on when there is a lot of rope out. Usually static line has a harder outer sheath and is much cheaper than dynamic line.

Static line would be the mast ascending line of choice based on standard mountaineering methods.
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