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Old 13-05-2005, 18:12   #76
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I'm on the other side of the world and never eat Big Macs. Nothing but Whoppers for this cowboy.

Hey... Victoria... My girlfriend and I are thinking of buying some property up near
Nanaimo as an investment. I've been through there, but never by boat. Know of any good marinas up there? I'd prefer liveaboard places, but would consider others if that wasn't available.
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Old 13-05-2005, 19:31   #77
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The only one I know of is Schooner Cove

but I don't know anything about its dock situation. The reason I say that is because my yacht club, Sidney North Saanich, does not have its own docks. Schooner Cove may be the same or they may have their own docks.

Website for Schooner Cove
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Old 13-05-2005, 19:51   #78
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Nice site there. lol, reference to Big Macs was intended to be an analogy more than anything. That came from me reading their log and I thought they said something to the effect of going downtown to Kings Cross wouldn't be what a cruiser would do, maybe if ya jumped ship from a cruise ship, but not a cruiser. I'd recommend they try what the locals dine on as 'fast food', those meat pies and pastys, they were cheap and go down pretty good with a VB or two or three or four lol
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Old 14-05-2005, 00:51   #79
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My point was more towards

the fact that they have traveleed halfway around the world (give or take...) and they eat something they could get around the corner at home.

Big Mac, Whopper, Taco Bell, Pizza Hut... take your pick...all the same thing; food you can get at home.

I just find it remarkable that people would do that. Others have commented about this previously.

Again, not passing judgment on Pat and Ali as I would rather be where they are than at my desk right now but I would not be going to McDonalds for dinner if I were in Sidney AU.

I would however be drinking VB
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Old 14-05-2005, 03:08   #80
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Yeh if you skip back through the depths of this thread, you will come across a comment to that effect, made by me. It was about sailing the world and not seeing the countries you visit being truley sad and suggested anyone doing that might as well simply sail around and around their own harbour till they clocked up the same ocean miles. They seemed to think it was a personal attack and took offence to my comment.
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Old 31-05-2005, 08:15   #81
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Just a few observations. I'll keep each short, or I could go on for pages:

1. Making judgments is good. We make them all the time. It's what keeps us from drinking the ammonia under the sink. Judging before the facts come in, often, bad; judging after the facts come in, necessary, or we're fools. People who say "Don't judge" judge all the time. What we should not (aye, cannot) judge is one's true motivations, and I will have no comments about those; but we certainly should judge one's actions if we have any sense at all.

2. Every idiot out there in a yacht doesn't deserve my "support" by virtue of the fact that he has a boat. My fraternity with him compels me to come to his aid, and attempt collegiality; I don't have to approve of him or any of his actions if I find them faulty.

3. If someone posts his experiences on a world-wide forum, he is opening himself up to critique or praise from all quarters. If he is so unabashed about his exploits, he should expect candid responses.
_____

I've read several of Pat & Ali's misadventures, enough to come to a couple of conclusions (and believe me, I'll be back to read more, as curiosity and shadenfreude overcome bewilderment and sympathetic shame (which I think is wasted, because Pat certainly doesn't feel any).

First of all, Jack (EuroCruiser) is being chided for using his good sense. He is one of the most knowledgeable contributors to this board; beyond that, he is the kindest, most gentlemanly poster I've read on any board, and he's being excoriated by those who are choosing to be offended when they should be listening to him; those who, I fear, are younger, less experienced, and less humble than he, and who, for those reasons, cannot hear what he is saying. That is a shame. They should consider themselves fortunate to benefit from someone so seasoned and generous with both his wisdom and his time.

Now, on to bumfuzzle:

I have no comments on the boat issues, or their handling of them, other than to say that previous experience may have served them well in this instance. I certainly learned from my first purchase.

I'll be honest: I actually feel some resentment (not envy for their financial resources) for this silver-spoon couple who go off on a lark to cruise the world with no real experience, and what really galls, not much desire to put in the time to learn to sail before they take on such a challenging pursuit. They jump in at the top, and expect it to be easy. I'm in no way a better person, but had I even a quarter of Pat's resources, I'd make myself into a competent sailor before I struck out and embarrassed myself. And in my view, this is a fundamental issue. I know where my limits are, and I feel an obligation to learn what I'm doing out there. Give me a book, or even just a diagram, Man: I'll LEARN to splice that line in one evening. Or just tie the damned bowline. Pat just doesn't seem concerned with the actual art and science of seamanship. He is a dilettante, and so has earned my scorn.

Consider the man who buys a "full set" of equipment and starts off to climb Mt. Everest, his only experience being long walks in the countryside near his home. Do you admire him because "at least he's 'out there'"? Do you respect his intrepid foray? Hold him up as someone who is "living the dream"? No: you call him a fool, and rightly so.

Now, some have suggested that others have set out on circumnavigations with relatively little experience: Robin Lee Graham has been noted. But Graham, or Tanya Aebei, both of whom were dramatically less equiped materially, showed adaptability, open-mindedness, resourcefulness, and self-reliance, and a willingness to immerse themselves in what they were doing. To compare P&A to them is to overlook this crucial difference, and is almost an insult to them. Robin Lee Graham built his own windvane; Pat doesn't know what a windex is, and wouldn't care to look "all the way up to the top of the mast" if he had one. I wouldn't be surprised if he wonders what those little colored strips of cloth are, fluttering unevenly on each side of his sails.

Pat doesn't know he has a two-speed winch because he hasn't put in the time to sail his boat and learn about her systems .

I'm reminded of the joke about the man who bought a chain saw, then returned it the next day, complaining that it took him more time to cut down trees with it than with his old manual saw; he was amazed when the salesman pulled the cord and started it for the first time on the counter. . .

When Eric Hiscock writes about his mistakes as a young sailor, such as overshooting a mooring with too much canvas up as a singlehander, or upon rowing out, discovering his yacht has freed itself from its mooring, and with the help of the harbormaster's launch, finding his runaway up the Solent grinding up against a quay miles upstream, he does so with a self-deprecating, comic tone that invites us to laugh with him. Pat claims that his winches never turned in two directions until he rebuilt them. He just can't face his own incompetency, so we can only laugh at him. BTW, I'm plenty incompetent still, but I've put in the time to learn the basics.

The second issue centers around Jack's observations about the couple's cultural-centrism, assumed superiority, sense of entitlement, and blindness to the richness and beauty all around them. Jack is entitled to his derision, and I quite agree. I think it's a shame they seem so cavalier (no, unappreciative) of that dimension of their experience, which for many erstwile cruisers, is the very reason to go. If I had a son with attitudes like that, I'd consider myself, to a large degree, a failure as a parent. The only positive thing I can say is that they need this excursion perhaps more than others.

Jack's concern for their safety, once they enter the next, challenging leg of their circle, are well-founded. Are they remotely prepared for the conditions they may encounter? One shudders to consider the possible scenarios.

I'll stop here, though I could go on. I'm going back to bumfuzzle.com to read the next tragi-comedic installment
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Old 31-05-2005, 11:19   #82
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My own take on the Bumfuzzles is that this little hootenanny that they've got going is mostly tongue-in-cheek. They certainly are getting their logs read if this and other forums is any indication. There are a lot of sailors who become famous by being brilliant and so few by being foolish. If they've stayed alive this long, I would suggest that they aren't as foolish as we give them credit for.

Personally, if I were going to write a ships log that pissed off everybody and their brother, this is how I would do it. Maybe they've got another "Captain Ron" movie planned!

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Old 31-05-2005, 18:44   #83
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I agree. They're young, they're there and they're making fun of the elitists who sit in front of computers by making fun of themselves. More power to them.

What is really funny is when they are obviously poking fun at themselves, and someone lifts the quote to demonstrate how shallow they are.

I don't know them, but I reckon there's not a bad bone in their bodies. Shallow? Well, I don't think they would waste their time sitting around critiquing other cruisers -- there's too much living to do.
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Old 02-07-2005, 13:58   #84
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Down Under

So they have arrived in Aus. Having read the blog all i can say is the sooner they leave the better. (edited down dowm the 2 pages that said what I REALY think).

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Old 03-07-2005, 22:34   #85
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most of us "cruisers"

sadly, most of us here are "armchair cruisers". Pat and Ali are not.

Bravo...

Mario
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Old 04-07-2005, 06:26   #86
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Actually, there are more "real" cruisers here than you think. And the ones that are "armchair" trained, probably haven't set off yet, cause they know enough to realise they aren't ready yet.
All I can say about Pat and Ali, they are running a lotto and at sea, your number has a greater chance of coming up.
Maybe, and I do hope they will get right around witout a hitch, but it will be blind luck than skill, if they do.
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Old 04-07-2005, 07:54   #87
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I would like to nominate my self as one of the armchair cruisers and I have very good reasons for being one.

The reason is simple it is because I have seen too many people like Pat and Ali: The incident with the Clarence entrance/bar shows their lack of respect for the sea and advice from people with far greater knowledge than they have. . My concern is not the risks that they take for themselves (if they donít worry why should I) My concern is based on the risks that they are placing others in when they take chances such as in Northern NSW.

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Old 21-07-2005, 19:19   #88
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While I am sitting here at my desc and wish for the weekend to go sailing on the muddy lake ... the guys are out there.

What is that babling about other disrespecting other cultures ?
They make extensive trips to see landmarks and meet people , go to rugby games and what not.

If they can make it around without knowing to splice a line.
And making fun about their eating habbits

all the power to them ...

I have a real need for german bread and curry wurst right bout now .. being in the USA i cannot get either , do I disrespect anybody ???

All the power to you guys ..... and keep the burger/pizza stories coming, it really makes some people feel sooooo much better, even if their boat hasnt moved a whole lot in the last years.


sittin in the office and dreamin about it .....

Thor
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Old 21-07-2005, 20:31   #89
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But I still bet you go sailing or boating on your muddy lake with a boat that is safe enough for the environment you are in. I bet you would wear a lifejacket if you need it. I bet you know how to sail or start the motor or what ever your vessel is powered by. Now I am not saying that the bumfuzz crew don't know thing as basic as that. What I and others ARE saying, is that they don't know some very important safety/sailing factors for the environment that THEY are sailing in. They have and are continuing to learn as they go, and even that is not a bad thing. It's just that they so far are fortunate. Some, even ones more prepared than they, have it go mighty wrong. I would like to see how they fear if placed in the same situations that some have recently found themselves in out in the Pacific.
To me, I don't care what they eat and what they want to experiance on the journey and I don't think that has been the major theme of any of these threads.
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Old 21-07-2005, 20:41   #90
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Oh and one other thing Thor. I am intending no Disrespect to you. Please Realise and remember, it is very hard to understand ones "tone" when in wrtten word. Especially from ones around the world. We maybe writing in English, but we can each mean very different things with the same words. We all have different accents. Different senses of Humour. Some of us can't believe others have access to guns in the course of the natural every day life. And of course, Some of us have Different expectations of safety. the only way on this board for you or anyone to have any sense of the underlying tone of our comments, is for the use of those avitars to our left. But even then, it is limiting.
Believe me, with reading other website BB's, you will know without a doubt, they day someone gets snarky on here. And I asure you, several will come down on that person like a ton of bricks. As many of those other sites have been all but destroyed for those being allowed to continue to express themsleves in not very nice way.
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