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Old 15-02-2005, 06:32   #31
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I read their articles in print and must confess to feeling some pangs of envy. To be young, out there with a beautiful wife and what has to be a very nice pile of cash. Not a bad life if you can get it. Reading their logs now, I am also tempted to be critical.

There seem to be a lot of maxims being tossed around. That sailors support each other and come to each others aid. True, I think. Also true is that when buying a boat you get what you pay for. And that you don't simply buy a cruising boat of a certain price, you earn it.

So, there seem to be quite a few lessons we can learn from all this. Lessons that have been run through threads on boat buying advice here before. Quality first, foremost and last. Reputation. And ...you get what you pay for.

Buying a 'cheap' cat from a little known builder a world away has got to be a leap of faith. A risk. Seasoned sailors are generally more risk averse.

Which brings up another piece of advice that has been suggested to boat buyers....don't sink too much money into the hull. To me, no matter how much or how good your insurance is, how great your surveyor was or the builder.....whatever you paid for that hull is a liability when it comes to your financial state. None of us can tell what those boats will be worth when we want to sell them or what might happen in a disaster.

So...I submit that since the quality of life one gets from sailing and cruising cannot be quantified, that those among us who are out there on relatively modest but well built boats are the smart ones. The ones who have to most upside.

After reading the logs and seeing where this young couple started from and their attitide about it, it is not surprising that it was all downhill from there. And that is unfortunate.

My best to all

John
ps - I am sure he will let us know but got a note from JeffH, he is doing well. Better and better.
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Old 15-02-2005, 06:38   #32
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Is Jeff sick???
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Old 15-02-2005, 06:44   #33
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NO.
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Old 15-02-2005, 18:29   #34
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As someone who has taken heat for being young online...

Hi All,

Not too long ago, the wife and I tried something new out in life. We decided to crew on a stinky, ugly motor yacht in order to minimize expenses and maximize savings... getting us off to cruising full time faster. We had a horrible experience. So bad I don't even want to get into it here.

Anyway, we also kept a web log and found that while some people were nice, and gave their words of support after our ordeal, others questioned our moral character, made wild accusations and assumptions, and generally berated us because we were not old.

I belong to "Gen X", and my wife just barely makes it into that category. I just want to stand up here and in solidarity with the cruising couple in question. While they may have a pile of money and may not have had enough worldly experiences to learn how to appreciate other cultures and food yet, they do appear to be enjoying themselves. In the end, is there anything else that really matters, other than enjoying your time on this earth with your wife? They are living the dream, and even if their lack of experience causes them to die tomorrow, they will have done more than most people I know.

Also, I can even understand their bizzare points of view on the world. If they were urban people with a lot of money, they were brought up differently than a lot of the "down home" people on this board. The same thing happened to me living in NYC. You start to view the entire world as "simple" after you live in a large city like that. You think crossing the Pacific is something you can do because you face so many other challenges on a day to day basis... what's another one? You become very confident. And... if they were flush with money, they are used to buying expertise. They continued in the only pattern they knew. Over time, as their adveture continues, they will learn all of the wonderful lessons of life. Actually, it appears (unfortunately for them) they are in the accellerated course.. But it's just that... they are learning. Don't fault them for that.

The people on this post who say they are so great at understanding other cultures should take a long look at themselves and do a mental reset, because if you are great at understanding cultures, why don't you understand the culture this couple comes from? Food for though... no ill will intended.


My 2.... no 75 cents.

Sean
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Old 15-02-2005, 18:54   #35
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Well, that is all good and explains the big city "culture", or lack off.

It also explain why the city-slickers seem kind of shallow.

Guess there is no time to smell the roses in the big towns, just race from one fast food place to another, and if there is problem, throw some money on it, and it shoud go away...

I worked in New York for 10 years as well, but commuted from Texas, did not live in town..Too stresfull, and it does things to yer personality.
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Old 15-02-2005, 19:00   #36
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Agreed...

CSY Man....

Agreed! I lived and worked in Manhattan for only 5 years (one of them was 2001). I'm very happy to be out....and getting back to my "down home" self. You're right. It does do strange things to the personality. Living in the city, you end up more like our sailors in question, but with a better taste in food. ha ha ha

Any info on that CSY for sale? I dropped you a line to your Yahoo address.

Cheers...

Sean
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Old 15-02-2005, 22:13   #37
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Big city

The farm boys and girls will know what it is like to get up at 3 am and rescue a new born calf from the field when it is way below freezing, or know what it is like to try and warm up a baby lamb that has just been born, or know what to do if an animal has broken a leg or a neck. They know what to do with the variety of broken equipment and broken fences, and horses that get their foot stuck in a fence. What it is like to be injured and miles from help. These are a few of the things that separate the rural folk from the city folk, the things that city folk can not begin to understand. It is the same type of experience that an off shore sailer might encounter. A farm boy on a boat would learn how to splice a braided rope and bleed the diesel the first week on the job. I have spent a little while in the big city, last Friday and Saturday for instance, it sucked. I was born in the South of London, I can't stand the place. I will never regret the time spent in the rural area, I have learned so much from my red neck tractor buddies, and guns are real handy when you have a sheep with a broken neck. I guess if you do not know how to fix it, having money helps.
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Old 15-02-2005, 23:15   #38
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I think it is unfair for any of us to comment on the personal side of the couple in question, when we don't know what there side of the story is. I do know that they are on a very limited time schedule and they are viewing this as a short adventure. The cruising life aspect is still to come for them. Maybe it will come sooner than they themselves expect, once they are towards the end of their goal and see what a blast it has been. Maybe not. But that is upto them. But at the mo, they have a plan, a goal and are working towards achieving it. We need to be careful at how we judge them as we do not know all the facts.
Where I believe this thread could be very useful, is the area's that some have touched on. The lessons to be learned when in the search for a vessel. Such as what questions to ask of whom. What to look for yourself. What responsibilties to other parties have in backn up. So on and so on.
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Old 16-02-2005, 07:43   #39
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Amazing! We are spending a lot of time emphasizing what Pat and Ali can't do. I think I perfer to think of all the things they can do! They have safely taken a boat more than 10,000 miles. More than half of that accross open ocean! Think of the skills that DOES take. We don't talk about being able to keep a watermaker running, navigation, piloting, weather routing, keeping ones spouse feeling safe and secure, provisioning, fueling, anchoring, tacking, financing, budgeting, keeping watch, handling leaks, beding hatches, VHF communication, SSB communication, managing electrical loads, keeping diesel engines running, engine maintenance, fuel managment, organizing storage, stocking spares, finding spares, keeping brightwork up, hoisting sails, maintaining sails, keeping sail from blowing out, not running into other boats, not having boats run into you, transiting the canal, keeping warm, keeping cool, refrigeration, not falling overboard, swimming, finding propane, filling propane tanks, pumping holding tanks, keeping the head running, keeping the batteries up, clearing customs, obtaining visa's, scoring beer, scoring pizza managing tackle, keeping tackle from rusting, managing health, managing perscriptions, fishing, not blowing up the boat, not burning down the boat, not sinking the boat... ETC, ETC, ETC.

I was trying to figure out what I needed splicing for. The only things I could come up with were cosmetic. When I replaced the halyards I just used electrical tape to join the old to the new line. Went through just fine. I'll learn one of these days, but I don't consider it a safety issue, so it is toward the bottom of my list.

The reason I keep reading Bumfuzzles logs are they are so entertaining!!! Pat is a very good writer. I know he does not intend to teach anyone how to sail. I think his intent is to share his adventures with friends, family and people around the world that just might want to say hey! Do some of his points annoy me? yep! Am I appalled some times? Absolutely. But, I read them with my wife and she says, "we know more than they do, maybe I won't be so scared of going offshore!" That is worth more than seemingly 100's of books I have read by the multitudes of experts. We all know you pro's can do it, how about us mortals?

Oh well, enough said. I need to go install the new inverter.

Cheers, and fine sailing to all.

Keith
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Old 16-02-2005, 08:41   #40
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Keeping the elephants away:
An engineer is out walking in the park and sees a wild-eyed man hitting a strangely painted block of wood with a stick. The engineer's curiosity gets the better of him, so he asks the wild-eyed man, "Why are you hitting that block?"
The wild-eyed man replies with a bit of a crazed smile, "The sound keeps the elephants away."
The engineer, now fully intrigued, digs deeper, "But why? There are no elephants here."
As the wild-eyed man continues to make his noise with renewed vigor, he says, "See! It's working."


A quick “Google” on “Man Survives” turns up all sorts of interesting stories, including:

Latvian man survives deadly binge: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3335019.stm
A Latvian man has recovered after drinking enough alcohol to kill two normal people.
Tests showed that he had 7.22 parts per thousand of alcohol in his blood, while four parts per thousand would usually be fatal.
The man was taken to intensive care on Wednesday, but was well enough to talk to journalists on Thursday ...


Man Survives Jump Into Lion's Den: http://www.local6.com/news/3887764/detail.html
A man was attacked and injured after jumping into a lion's den at the Taipei Zoo and trying to convert the lions to Christianity. The 46-year-old man leaped into the den of African lions and shouted "Jesus will save you," according to the report. He also said, "Come bite me" before one of the male lions attacked and bit the man ...

I don’t think that anyone would suggest that drinking a double-fatal dose of alcohol, or jumping into a den of lions is a good idea, just because it’s been done (more or less) successfully. I don’t think anyone would even seriously suggest that it’s “doable”.

Why then, should we assume that the fact of Pat & Elly’s survival (without major mishap to themselves or to others) on a semi-circumnavigation (c/w major ocean passages) suggests that newbi’s can successfully cruise with an absolute minimum of preparation, skill, and knowledge? I don’t think it does.

Respectfully,
Gord
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Old 16-02-2005, 08:41   #41
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My last comment on the subject...

Quote:
we don't know what there side of the story is
Isn't this what their entire website is about?

Quote:
They have safely taken a boat more than 10,000 miles
"God looks after children, drunks, and fools"


I DO give them ALOT of credit for getting out there and doing it!!!

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Old 16-02-2005, 17:23   #42
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Ok, I know I said the previous comment was my last, but what do you say to this?!?!?!?!

From Bumfuzzle.com...
Quote:
And since I was having so much fun with my spray paint I asked Ali if I could paint the Man Over Board Pole. Or as we like to call it, the Flag Pole. The MOB pole was painted red, which didn't match at all, although I'm guessing there is a safety issue involved here. But now it is this sweet looking gray that really ties in nicely with the fabric around it. A wise choice indeed.
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Old 17-02-2005, 01:19   #43
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Ummm yeeess. I have to admit when I read that, I took a gasp and muttered out loud, Ya did WHAT!?!?!?!?
OK... so maybe they are an accident waiting for somewhere to happen.
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Old 17-02-2005, 06:03   #44
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It does look like they are lacking some sound judgment. I did read that they are keeping their life insuranve paid up! That could be a good thing for someone.

Now I need everyone to follow my thread on heading south so that I don't make anymore mistakes than I have to! I would hate to see a post like this involving me!
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Old 17-02-2005, 12:11   #45
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I do hope that doesn't mean you need help infinding the Direction of South Gunner.
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