Unfortunate turn!

[debby]

Just joined this site and I have read several forums. This one on Bumfuzzle, Ali and Pat caught my eye and I read all of the postings.

I have corresponded with them and have been treated kindly. I have not lectured nor advised. They remind me of my children who are 21-35; Eyes still wide open with curiousity and not filled with fear; Ready to jump into activities that interest them and willing to share their experiences as long as you don't judge them.

Most of the posters who are negatively judging them seem to be older cruisers. I have seen a lot of your posts on other Boards. Most of the older cruisers offer what has worked for them and why. It's nice for them to post their experiences and I have applied many of them to my boat and cruising style.

But with Ali and Pat, as with my children, if they don't ask for my advice, I don't offer it. They will not listen until they are ready and they quite often surprise me and work everything out for themselves, just as Ali and Pat are doing. What a huge learning curve for them and they are doing remarkably well.

You know, if we all think about it, they are probably like a lot of us were several decades ago...we didn't want to hear it from our parents...we knew it all or so we thought and we are still here.

I am with those who admire Ali and Pat because they are doing it. They didn't wait for years and years to go. I know so many who waited too long and will never go despite all of the valuable information they have obtained over the years. They have the knowledge but not the health or life got in their way. Sometimes you learn from books, but most of the time you learn from doing it.

And I really like the idea that they seem to be willing to go where the cruisers don't go. Seems like a lot of the cruisers don't like to explore places unless someone else has already been there, charted it and reported back. Ali and Pat have explored many places not even recommended to visit and they had a good time doing it. They have tried new foods, new drinks, mingled with the average man and taken part in activities that involve regular joes.

My advice to them = Keep looking at the world through young eyes. I know you are exploring the cultural divides and trying to be good ambassadors as you travel, despite your tongue in cheek comments.

So go, Pat and Ali. My thoughts will be with you as you go through the Red Sea, as will my prayers.

[NoTies]

Bum says:- "I'm not a 'savy' internet user"
Well, go to another forum and learn, don't use this one unless you can move on and contribute something or ask some pertinent questions.

[GordMay]

BUM:

Thanks for your input.

Could you provide any useful information about the tricky little “radar homing beacon system” that you recommend over the MOB pole? Make & model info’ would allow interested parties to check it out, and perhaps purchase for their own use.

The most significant detractor of the WilCat’s would certainly be the Bumfuzzles, themselves. Several on this board, including I, were disposed to view the manufacturer with some sympathy in this dispute.

Alan (‘Wheels’) has also provided much relevant input, on this thread & others. Perhaps he has nothing useful & significant to add to his previous comments (on the Bumfuzzles), and sees no use in meaningless squabbling.

FWIW,
Gord

[Alan Wheeler]

Thank-you Gord. Yep I am here and disapointed in the attempt by a new first time poster to use his privilage in a negative way. I am going to refrain from this squabble. It is obviouse that some people choose not to read the posts in the way and manner in which they are intended. They read into them, their own veiws and tones based on their own malicouse intentions. It is also obviouse that their is someone out there that is behind much of this. Their act is cowedly and malicouse. They have never yet once joined in and allowed us to TALK about even one issue ever stated in this thread, let a lone any other part of the BB and yet we all know they read here. Their silence on this BB added to their proportionaly badmouthing comments else were, I think sums up compleately just what sort of people they really are. If they ever once replied on here, they would find that most all of us would have been very happy to discuss the issues presented. And if it was found that anyone of us was either wrong, or wrongly understood or what ever, they would have had an appology. I know this to be true, because I have got to know and have made some very good freinds and respect the opinions and views of every single "participant" on this board. I may not agree, but I respect and I can enter into some banter and either be educated, teach, sympathize, encourage or support another poster and freind.

So "Bum", either join in here, find out who we are, participate in some positive way, become a freind or bugger off as none of us have time to deal with sort of crap. And I won't be replying to your posts again. I have said more than I was intending to already. Hey, I'm just a mere Human.

But I hope you do join in here. I hope we become freinds. I am very forgiving and am happy to forget any of this is you want to start afresh.
By the way, you too made a couple of negative comments about the Fuzzles, their lack of sailign ability and the poor choice in boat. Did you mean this in the way that it could easily be taken, or not?? See!!!, it is easy to be mis-interpreted and taken out of context.
So is this a time

[CaptainK]

I agree with Gord & Wheels.

It's very easy to misinterperet words that were typed out for posting.

It's also to get easily confused about certain aspects of what's being mentioned. When negative contexts are thrown into the mix.

Thus making a legitmate thread, into one long and winding posting fight. (Fued)?

I would love to hear a legitmate. And interesting comment posting on "positive notes," to be posted on here. Now, we're all human beings here. Even I have sounded negative in the past. And everyone else has fought themselves. In one way or another from wanting to post any negative comments on this here forum?

It just boils down to simply this. If you don't think you can post postively. Instead of negative comments. You are sure guranteed some form of automatic fire. From someone who's a regular on this forum.

Cause to alot of us on this forum. This place is like the local city library to some of us. A place to find more knowledge about sailing. And it's lifestyle. And a place to make friends. And find out more about sailing and it's lifestyle.

As to making friends on this forum. I most definately have. And I have met one of them just recently. A great person to get to know. And there are plenty more out on this forum. Who I would have the great honor and privilage to hopefully get to meet some day?

This forum to me is like a library. And the local club for hobbists. That's what this forum is like to me. And it's been so far been great to learn form this forum. And making friends.

WOW! As those of you who CONTRIBUTE to this forum know, I do not visit this thread much. Mainly because it really does not interest me, but I was directed here as a result of the new poster, Bum.
Bum, I have read your posts, and FWIW, they do sound infamatory. This realy surprises me, and here is why. I have a great interest in Cape Horn. Even an obsession. I have not sailed it, but my interest has taken me to many people who have, from those who have done it on small boats, to one sailor who experienced it on a steamer. The one thing that all of them came back with was humility. An understanding that as great as their accomplishment was, it was only by the grace of the sea that they were allowed to complete that journey. You do not seem to possess that humility. I am not sure if I am reading more into your posts than is really there, or maybe missing something, but that is what is coming across. That being said, show me! If you have done this, you deserve my respect, and I will value any views you choose to share. Post some photos in the gallery. I for one, will welcome them, and value the rare addition. I would even like to see you start a thread. Tell of your voyage. If you have accomplished this, I am sure that others will share my interest in reading about it. This forum thrives on such contributions, so forget about this thread. The Bumfuzzles do not need an advocate here. I can not imagine that they even care if we approve. I would hope they have far better things to do, so please, contribute from your experience. I think we would all benefit.

[capt lar]

It is my opinion that Pat is playing everyone to keep the spin going on his voyage.
Pat now posts a link on his copyright protected web page to this thread. It's simple self-promotion ! Aren't we better off without it ?
I do not think this thread and the ongoing attacks contribute anything to this BB. Wheels' post was a clear request for people not to dredge this up. Now he is the target of Pat's promotional efforts. I still believe this thread should be deleted to cut the lines.
If folks want to follow Pat, he has a web site. They can contribute to his cruise and follow his adventure.

Larry

Larry, does that mean no Cape Horn photos? Ah man... I'm bummed!

[CaptainK]

Ahhhhhhhhhh....damn it. I was looking forward to seeing some photos from Cape Horn.

[bum]

Well I guess i've been beaten with the stick and I'm recovering with a few bruises. You 'older' gentlemen who have been on this site for ages seem to run things here and fair enough.

However please take one thing in your stride. You guys are not always right and sometimes you can come across a bit arrogant like the rest of us mere mortals.

As I have to work I'll reply to your questions when I get time regarding Cape Horn - I have lots of photos but not of the cape itself as it was dark and cloudy - (in fact fog) on the night I went around.

Here is a link to the MOB system - very simular to the one we used however ours was manufactured in New Zealand I believe.

http://www.deepblue.ch/marine/test/pro_mob.html

[CaptainK]

Hey bum.

You keep calling us all "older gentlemen."

Roughly how old are you. If you don't mind me asking you this question?

Myself, I'm in my late 30's.

So I can imagine you're probably in your late 20's to early 30's?

[bum]

29 to be exact. Kai Nui seems to have some doubt as to the validity of my voyage if I am reading into his comments correctly - if that is the case why not just come out and say it? Of course if i'm reading into your comments wrong forgive me. That is something I'm learning pretty quickly here is to be very careful what you say other wise people get the wrong idea.

In short my trip consisted of buying a yacht in Brisbane, sailing to Sydney, then to Dunedin New Zealand, around Stewart Island, up the West Coast to Nelson, Wellington, Auckland via Tauranga to Russell to repair a stuffed alternator. I did this part of the voyage with my brother who lives in New Zealand. Leaving Russell I single handed to Puerto Williams which took me 9 weeks. Funny thing is the worst weather I had was about 3 days out from New Zealand where I was knocked down 3 times in a row. The hardest thing was the regular sail changes to keep the yacht moving. Completely stuffing. I left the yacht with my brother here in Chile while he cruised with his wife around the fjords. I went home to earn some money and keep business going for 4 months. Returning to the boat my brother had put it into a marina at Puerto Montt. We slipped her and spent a month restepping the rig and antifouling and painting. Thank goodness she was made of steel as 3 hours out of the marina on my way around the horn I hit uncharted rocks at 6 knots. Around the horn was an emotional experience for me as I worked so hard to make this trip happen. However fog and no moon and smooth seas were all I saw. I never thought of motor sailing around the Horn. I sailed a direct trip to New York where another brother of mine works and spent 2 lovely weeks in marinas before sailing home to the UK. I've sold the boat now as we now have our first kiddy here back in good old New Zealand. I'd highly recommend a steel yacht if you have any asperations of offshore heavy weather sailing. Mine was a Pugh 40 footer made in Australia. The best day I had out of her was 147 nm single handing. When time is available we will be purchasing a 45 footer for a world cruise with our kids - I really want to get back to Chile to see things properly as I didn't have time to look things over properly.

Looking back i've probably done things a little bad on this board and did a bit of name calling - sorry about that - all I wanted to do was support the bums because until you are really out there sailing it does get quite annoying when people give you sh1t. I know that not everyone has the opportunity or time or money to do a long trip but I was very much like the bums and had little real experience before I left. I learn't as I went and did it in chunks and I always sailed in a conservative manner.

so no more name calling from me and I'll try and tow the line with this board as it has some great resourses.

Bum, was I questioning the validity of your claims? Yes, and for the reasons I mentioned, however, I would not be so bold as to state that I do not believe them without much more information than was provided in your previous posts. It looks like you found that humility I was speaking of.
Had I simply thought you were full of it, I would have said so, but since you did not provide enough information for me to draw that conclusion, I offered you the opportunity to prove yourself. I understand the lack of photos of Horn Island, but I am sure you have some fascinating photos of southern Chile and Tierra Del Fuego, that all of us would enjoy. You short summary of the voyage is very interesting, and I would like to hear more. Unless, of course, you are holding out until the book is published.
As for "old guys", I am not that much older than you are. 40. I do consider myself knowlegable on most aspects of sailing and boats. I willingly offer that knowlege to whomever asks, and am the first to admit when I am wrong. I do not critisize you or anyone for disagreeing with me, but I will ask that you show me your point. I can explain in great detail the reasoning behind what I believe. If you want me to change my views, you will have to do the same. In this case, you came cruising in pointing fingers, and telling people what to think. Seems a bit bold for your first couple of posts, and I have to say, I do not really see your reasoning. Your last two posts were slightly less confrontational.
This in mind, lets start over. Forget about the Bummfuzzles. You will not likely change any minds about them on this forum. They are who they are, and if they come away better people from their experience, than it was a success.
Jump out there, and start a thread. As I suggested before, I think many of us would enjoy the subject of Cape Horn. Place your story out there, and let us ask you some questions about it.

[CaptainK]

I most absolutely agree with Kai.

I would love to hear about your experiences about sailing around the Horn.

Your story about your 40 foot Pugh sailboat.

And how did she handle the seas?

What was going through your mind. That exact moment when your boat hit uncharted rocks at 6 knots? Stuff like this are stories to be written about on this forum.

I would love to hear them. I'm sure that I speak for alot of people on this forum. That if you were to really contribute stories, about your experiences. You would gain fans (friends). And even earn more respect in the sailing community from your stories.

This is something to think about. And if you really want to tell your stories. I know someone who has a show on the internet. That would probably might consider bringing you on his show? That's something else to consider about as well?

So now. The introductions are set. I am looking forward in hearing more about your sailing journey, Bum. And welcome aboard!!

[NoTies]

I have stated on here many times that I have virtually zero sailing experience yet am off on an NZ circumnavigation in April yet nobody here has said I am unwise. Do we actually just have a different perception of people that are outside our "community"? This is by no means being judgemental, just trying to inspire a bit of navel gazing about how we view ourselves as a group. Damn, Friday night and I'm sober.