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Old 30-10-2005, 07:37   #196
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Let me just start with WOW!

Having been born in the 60’s and endured my childhood before the rampant political correctness and obsession with safety I have often wondered what happened to the pioneering spirit that the human race once had. After reading this form I now know. By far the more experienced posters (in their own words) seem to be chiding the two adventurers on Bumfuzzle for what they are doing wrong, their foolishness, their inexperience, their arrogance, lack of cultural wonder, the fact that they are wasting their trip and money, maybe even a little jealousy at the fact that they can afford to do what they are doing, and just plain overall disdain for their lack of knowledge. Your main contention seems to be that Pat and Ali aren’t cruisers

Dictionary.com’s first definition of the word “cruising”: To sail or travel about, as for pleasure or reconnaissance.

Seems like according to the accepted definition of the word Pat and Ali are indeed cruisers. And nowhere in that definition does it state “must find, explore, and enjoy local customs and cuisine”. Nope, just talks about sailing and traveling for pleasure or reconnaissance. I think we can all agree that Pat and Ali seem to be traveling to sail and see different things. Cruising was, and always will, be first and foremost about being on a boat on the water! It would appear that too many “cruisers” have forgotten this.

And I have researched both their site and these posts and again I did not find any reference from Pat and Ali as to having set up their website to invite criticism of their trip. It would seem they set up their website to share their adventures with us. I chose to read their logs for the enjoyment of seeing where they and how they are doing. I do not question why they do what they do nor do I care. They have been kind enough to share their adventures and I accept. Yes everyone has an opinion and everyone is entitled to it and to share it with others. That is the beauty of living in a free society. But what bothers me is I haven’t seen a lot of help from the supposed advanced cruisers out there. If you think they are wrong then great, why not help them out with advice and suggestions. Don’t simply state how foolish they are and then back up your opinion by stating how much experience you have. Share that experience with the rest of the world and encourage others to get out there sailing too.

One of the most valuable pieces of wisdom I was ever offered came from a teacher a long time back. He said: “I can give you everything you need to succeed but that which you need most, experience. That you have to earn on your own by doing.” It was true then and true now. No amount of training will ever teach you to circumnavigate the world. At some point you have to do it. So for those of you out there that have done it, how about sharing what you learned with those of us that haven’t. And to those looking for some advice, please remember that just because someone tells you how they did it doesn’t make it the right way. Use the advice of others as a guideline only. What works for one doesn’t work for everyone. Most important of all, take your trip the way YOU want to. If you just want to sail around and enjoy the ride then go for it. Nothing says you have to sail the same way as everyone else. After all Pat and Ali certainly are doing it their way and they sound like they are still having fun.

P.S. For the record after 29 years of sailing I still don’t know how to splice a line. Once I learned I could whip the ends, and it worked just as well, I never bothered to learn how to splice. My father joined the Canadian Navy in 1958 when it was still the 3rd largest blue water navy in the world. The Navy taught him to whip a line, and he taught me. Still seems to work after all these years.
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Old 30-10-2005, 08:39   #197
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Rec800- I applaud! Well said. -Phil
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Old 30-10-2005, 11:57   #198
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P.S. For the record after 29 years of sailing I still don’t know how to splice a line. Once I learned I could whip the ends, and it worked just as well, I never bothered to learn how to splice.
Not sure what the connection are between splicing and whipping?

2 different procedures for different purposes....?
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Old 30-10-2005, 12:30   #199
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Awwwee come on guy's. Firstly rec800, don 't you get it?!?!?!. You know how to solve a problem. Whether it be the right or wrong way to make an eye, who cares, you can make an eye. You can wip a line, which is just one of many ways to do a job.
I ain't going to dive into this again. My views are clear and I suggest that the ones that comment like you, haven't gone into any of the threads in detail. You just skimmed over and have read and commented out of context. So don't just pick little excerts out and comment that that is my or anyones only view. Read it all and I mean ALL, to get the context of why a comment was made. Honestly, I think this thread has gotten waaaay to big for that to actually be possible.
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Old 30-10-2005, 18:37   #200
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Well commented Capt Lar and I also agree, Pat and Ali have moved on and have gained experiance we are seeing put into action.
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Old 30-10-2005, 23:05   #201
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Critcism

Rec800, call it whatever you want. When you publish anything that is read or viewed or touched by the public domain, you invite feedback in its many forms. You can call it criticism if you like, but these folks did indeed invite feedback by the very fact of posting. To think that you are only inviting positive feedback is very naive.
Getting feedback is easy to do, do something that is witnessed by others. See the other posts about filling a water tank, or sanding a piece of wood. One simple fact of life is no matter what you do you can not please everyone, you are lucky if you can please a few. Or let me put it another way, if you are a salesperson and 10 people walk through the door, 3 of then don't like you. It has nothing to do with you, it is just other peoples perception. If you are polite you might sway one of the three. This is why sales folks dissapear and somone new shows up to help you. They have it figured out. You will to in time.
I notice it is your first post.
You do not have to learn how to splice to talk with me.
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Old 31-10-2005, 05:38   #202
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I have come to a conclusion that most of the posts on this board come from a few. A few that have a thing for seeing there words in print or have a fixation with typing, I am not sure witch. Your a bunch of long winded self serving people. If you had that much wind to fill your sails you catch up the Bums and grace them with your great wisdom. Don't get me wrong, I have said before I don't agree with there style of CRUISING but I sure as hell wish I was out there. Jealous!! Your damn right I am and so are the rest of the wantabe cruisers out there. More power to them and I hope when they get back to the states they decide to do it all over again. I wish them a safe trip and a good time HOWEVER THEY choose to do it.
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Old 02-11-2005, 15:15   #203
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My apologies if I offended anyone, that was not my intention. My intention was to merely point out that there appears to be a lot more criticism then help in this thread. And again reading it from start to finish (which takes a considerable amount of time now) I still see the same thing I saw the first time around. There simply isn’t a lot of help being offered. Yes, there is some, and there are some posts that are very positive. Yet there are also those posts that are very negative. I am at a complete loss at to why this would be the case. I have claimed no expertise and the only thing I mentioned was that I can whip the ends of a line, which to be honest is no big feat, but it does the trick nicely.

I read a lot of logs and forums, and my reason for doing so is to enjoy the travels of others and read about parts of the world I have never seen and probably never will. And yes this thread is the first I’ve posted on but not he first I’ve read. My reason for posting is that in other threads there does tend to be a lot of help, but not in this case. I just couldn’t fathom the reason why, so I had to say something. I may post again; I may not, it will truly depend on the thread. I am mildly saddened by the thought that not posting again will render my opinion irrelevant in the eyes of some, but in truth even should I post again my opinion will still be viewed as irrelevant to some readers, and I guess that’s as it should be.

Again to anyone I offended I offer my honest apologies.

And to Pat and Ali, keep up the logs I really enjoy them.
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Old 02-11-2005, 18:29   #204
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rec800

Very eloquently said. I wish I had taken the time and cooled down with my thread because you truly said it so well. I had the same wonder with the negativity toward the Bums and noted it in my very first post and was similarly shunned for not having "enough posts" to warrant true experience. I was told that if I could just "reveal" my credibility I may be taken seriously. Never mind the content of my post. Which had to do with character NOT seamanship. But because I hit a nerve , I was put down (see a pattern) for not posting enough to show my expertise, to be taken seriously. Again, they simply avoided my point and called me a troller, NOT POST WORTHY!!! I've been on this BB and other BB for years and I sail the SF bay and I am certified !! and maybe even certifiable! Even tho I could be making it all up. Which I am not. I think my point is well made in "Bumfuzzle topic" and will leave well enough alone. Try being kind.

"The truth will set you free." KIP To all.
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Old 02-11-2005, 18:35   #205
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Because you are not looking at the picture from a step back. Firstly, you can't just read post after post, as some don'f follow after each other. That's the problem with subjects when they get very long winded. And it becomes even fogger when a whole new thread is started about the same subject as has happend. Some "negtative" comments made are not negative as such, but more an expression of shock, surprise and a view of how it should be done. A few, are more tongue in cheek, than being nasty. That's what I was refering to with a reader not being able to understand the tone in which the comment is made. Some of the comments are made tongue in cheek between two posters that know each other and understand what and how it is being implied. It is not always a personal attack. Pat has been invited to join in on many occasions and so far has not. But if he were, I think you would see a very different and helpful form of reply.
Then you have to view the overall subjects and threads. If some here had bad attitudes, you would see that same theme evident through all the subjects, not just this one thread.

Another point I made about you rec800. You can wip a line. It may not be a splice, but who cares. You have been willing to learn and have been taught something that just may get you out of trouble one day. Is it the right way?? at the moment who cares. You have "a" way that will get you sorted if the need arises. You can go on to learn the proper technique if you choose and think it's neccessary. Plus, I bet you know a few other things around your boat as well. Like just being able to use a compass, (as the Fuzzles declared they had no idea why the thing was even there. )

I wish you welcome here. I hope you do hang around and post often. I look forward to it. If you post, don't be afraid, you will not be torn apart making a wrong answer. I am yet to see that happen here.
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Old 02-11-2005, 18:54   #206
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Thank you Alan. I have noticed that you consistently try to keep everyone on track. And in the face of people with strong opinions, myself included, that can be a very daunting task. Yet you continue to be the voice of reason. I take your point toward the posts and as the thread grows they are changing. Living where I do I have met a lot of sailors over the years (please note I use the term sailors rather then cruisers as that is how I think of both them and myself) and as a group they have all tended to be interesting in their own way. I can also state that they have without fail added to my own knowledge of boats and the ocean usually through tales of the mistakes they made and how they fixed their errors.

Now is a compass that round thingy with the pointy stick that swings around in it? I think I have one of those on my boat too.
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Old 02-11-2005, 20:13   #207
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Wheels and empathy

Thank you Wheels for expressing yourself in ways that many of us feel. I think about how, if all of us were there in my cockpit in some cruising environment condusive towards feeling open (O.K., there COULD be some rum involved) we would be "shooting-the-****" covering many of these topics without any concern about being condemned.

Here, however, we might be condemned because of the fact that we forget that, jeeze, we are not sharing my favorite Venuzuelan rum, Caucique (or however it is spelled). Yet even our most vehement detractors are welcome in my cockpit because this is neat stuff, wouldn't you agree?

I love you all!
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Old 02-11-2005, 21:53   #208
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The greatest thing I enjoy about the life of sailing, is that so far, EVERY single person that I have meet that are "cruisers" in same way shape or form, are the most welcoming easiest people to get along with and the most fantastic stories get shared. Personally I am not a crowd person. I hate crowds, even if it is crusiers, I get real nervouse of crowds. But a couple or two is so much fun and I just love the "fellowship". I have never found anything similar in any other walk of life. There is something different and special about crusiers.
Hey rec800, yep, that's the compass. The compass is a really important asset and any sailor should know exactly how to use it. It is for testing metals. It sorts out the poor stainless from the good stuff. The better the stainless, the less the dial thingy in the middle spins around. This is one of the most important things to ever know about on a boat. That's why they put the compass in such a prominent position.
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Old 07-11-2005, 15:09   #209
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I have always seen signatures like "So cast off your bowlines and set free your soul..." however, no-where did I ever read "BUT....as long as you do it in a manner consistent with all the old-arm chair sailors"!!

Here is my opinion, I only have one and I will cast it in a manner consistent with my god given right...

In regards to Pat and Ali of Bumfuzzle, I have read every word they had printed from the day they purchased their boat. I look forward to their posts each and every day that I come into my office in NYC and I am dissapointed when there are none for the day. They have been a part of my daily routine for YEARS. I may not agree with everything that they did or currently do but I take the logs for what they are.

Let's remember a few points about Pat and Ali Shultz:

1. They chose to cast off their bowlines and see this world while they still could (before starting a family or continuing careers or finding that medically, it was no longer available to them).
~~~Perhpas even in the pages of this forum will you read of people that could only WISH they DID exactly what Pat and Ali did when they had the chance.

2. They chose to include the rest of us in their daily lives thru a web site (Of their own choosing and I, for one am grateful to them for this. I would like to think that if/when I share my long distance cruising logs with the public they would firstly understand that I may have my own crusing style and STILL may not be able to splice a line!).

3. They made a decision to see the world via the ocean, gaining an unmeasurable amount of experiance in sailing, when it is obvious, they had the financial ability to do it by plane and hotel.
~~~Perhaps when they are finished, we can all take a lesson from THEIR experience since they would have had A-LOT OF IT!

4. The latent defects with their cat, without placing blame anywhere, was very unfortunate and there are a thousand different would haves, could haves, should haves.
~~~I agree they could have done a bit more research before purchasing but my wife and I kind of believe that if you bought a BlueWater Cruiser for $150K and then did $50K worth of repairs it's STILL kinda like buying one for $200K ready to go right?
(I even believe I read about someone in that thread that purchased a Pacific Seacraft, a sailing vessel of note that was having similar issues. I guess all the research on that vessel didn't pay off).

My ending thought is that this young couple admired it, dreamed it, pursued it, caught it and is now LIVING IT!!! and I guess the rest of the armchair sailors are left to Pontificate it!

Bajamas
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Old 07-11-2005, 19:43   #210
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