Unfortunate turn! - Page 12

CSY Man · 11-09-2005, 22:45

Quote:

And yes, I still say the trip from FL to South America is a hop. On a 57 foot cat that trip could be made in about 3 nights! That's a hop!

Wow, that would be a fast hop.

Well, if all the planets and all the stars were alligned right, and if Steve Fosset with his multi billion mucho multi-hull and his multi pro crew let go all margins, yup, ya could sail down there to the Northern tip of South America from the Southern tip of Noth American in 3 days..Maybe...never tried it, but I fly that way every day....1000 miles or so...In a sailboat that would be a bit longer due to islands in the way, currents and other factors, like weather....3 days? Hmm you could not pay me enough to go on that one.

Quote:

Last post from me. Have fun in your cyber cruising world.

Aye janice, based on yer 2 postings and not much substance, I'd say you should hang around here and learn something from guys that have been out there sailing and still have time to post on the 'net, instead of hanging on to Pat and Ali's happy go lucky story that reads like a fools tale...

(In case ya don't understand the last sentence, then ya don't have too many sea-miles under yer belt, or too much boating experience..Which seems to be common on this thread from people that defend the journey and the actions of Pat and Ali instead of questioning or being shocked by some of the stuff we are reading)

That being said, my hat off to people that go out there and just "do it"....Even more so if they did their home work and sailed in style and comfort with a minimum of seamanship applied to the journey..

To read this tale make some of us cringe, that would be the 99% that have been out there sailing the oceans....Not the wannabees that defends the actions of the ignorant newbies.

Alan Wheeler · 12-09-2005, 00:19

Wow!, this is my 854th post. I didn't realise that. Thanks for letting me know that Janice. But I think ya failed to read one or two other statistics there Janice. When I started Posting and thus the average of just 1.3 posts per day. Or that could be looked at another way. I was born in 1962, that makes me 43 nearly 44. I grew up in a family with boats and can remember being on boats before much else. The first time I got to control a sailboat and she was 40ft, was when I was 12. I owned my own boat, which was a Paper Tiger when I was 17. That's because I had to get a job to be able to buy my own boat. At one point in life, I worked for sometime fitting equipment to vessels both large and small and having to take them out and test or comission them. I worked in Chandlery for several years and was well trained in many different aspects of equipment and was also a service agent for several brands of electronics. I have yacht raced large yachts for many years and am about to do one from Auckland to Russell. And oh look, I have now done what I wasn't going to, I have spouted on about myself.

As for Florida to South America in 3 days. Girl, go get your Atlas out and take a look at how far that is. I don't know what the Departure and Arrival ports for the person in question were, but if someone took the shortest possible route, it is like sailing from Melbourne to Cairns. If you can do that in 3 days, you better take you and ya boat and enter the next Sydney to Hobart, because you'll smash the race record by doing it in hours not days.
Oh but, you probably can't enter the Sydney to Hobart, becasue you wouldn't have the experiance that is required by the Authorities to be able to participate and we certainly know you can't use Pat and Ali's boat, because it doesn't come up to the safety requirements of Cat1.

OK know I have just broken my own personal rule number two, I retaliated. Sorry Gord, I will try better next time.

12-09-2005, 17:06

OK Wheels, now it's my turn.
YIKES!!!!

Catamount · 12-09-2005, 18:28

or distance / time = rate

so 1184 nautical miles (Miami to Caracas) in 3 nights (4 days? let's say 72 to 84 hours) = 14 to 16 knots.

Is that an unreasonable average speed for a 57' catamaran reaching across the trade winds?

Regards,

Tim

CSY Man · 12-09-2005, 21:25

Quote:

Is that an unreasonable average speed for a 57' catamaran reaching across the trade winds?

Averaging 15 knots day and night for a cruising boat is pretty darn good,

For a racing boat with all the crew, the gear and the support, it would not be out of reach,...

So, uh are we still comparing and commenting on cruisers, racers or amateurs?

I'd sure subscribe to the rule: Live and let live, just don't promote idiots as being heros.

Mario · 13-09-2005, 05:46

My God, how disapointed I am with you guys...

I really enjoyed starting writing to this thread, but know I realized it's really pointless.

You guys must be the sailing popes or something.

And you should all go live to the USA and join GW Bush's republican party, as you guys are all but democrates!

Thank God you are nobodies, like the rest of us...

Catamount · 13-09-2005, 06:18

I just don't have any experience sailing on big cats (or small ones for that matter), so I don't know if 15 knots is realistic or not. I gather that they're supposed to have the potential to reach at much faster speeds than a monohull. I know that the Dashew's design their big monohull cruising boats to be sailed by couples at average speeds approaching 12 knots (or something like that).

My main point was simply to inject a little quantitative reasoning into the assessment of Janice's claim. Yeah, a 3-night (and 4 day) passage of 1200 miles seems extremely unrealistic to those of us used to short-handed cruising on smaller, slower, displacement monohulls; and it may still be a bit of an exaggeration for a big cat but might not be all that far-fetched.

(Disclaimer: this is not an endorsement of anyone's claims, least of all Pat & Ali's mis-adventures.)

Regards,

Tim

capt lar · 13-09-2005, 08:06

actually mario - to receive the coveted "sailing pope" classification, you have to sail a 57 foot cat from FL to South America in about 3 nights! at that point you can refer to the trip as a mere "hop". documentation of the trip is required and only those trips certified by the SPC (sailing pope club) are recognized. there is a special burgee you can fly and a large ring kissing ceremony. as you can imagine, there are very few living "sailing popes", since the extreme lifestyle often leads to an early death. i, myself have never met a "sailing pope", but i did once meet a "cruising nudist", but that's another story.
democracy, backed up by law, insures freedom of speech, but if you personally insult someone and make comments about their wife, odds are you will get punched in the nose. is it not so in portugal ? capt. lar

Mario · 13-09-2005, 11:33

Capt Lar,

Portugal is a great country. Set sail and come here. I'll buy you a beer. What the heack, come here and I'll buy you a whole bunch of beers!

Alan Wheeler · 13-09-2005, 13:42

Well, it's refreshing to say the least, to see the course this thread is now taking. So let me wade in up to my knees and paddle about for a mo.
If you could sail that distance in the alledged time, I think you would make rank one above Pope for starters

Remember, the distance described is straight lining. There are a couple of obsticles in the way (at least on my map) that would need moving slightly. So Pope is definately not a high enough rank.

The speed of 16knts is an average. Take a look at the big recording setting racing cats and tri's and what max speeds they have to endure to make averages of 16knts. So you would be enduring average winds speeds and thus cruising speeds that would either mean you definately hold higher ranking than Pope and can thus control the elements or you are definitely a praying Man, cause you would be on your knees praying the entire trip and most definitely there for the ride only

Yes indeedy, it would be a deeply religouse experiance, whom ever you are.

rhonda · 08-10-2005, 09:09

Wow what a conversation piece this has turned into !! (The post that is)
I have been out of pocket so to speak ~ and just now catching up on this thread.. Which is taking forever lol ~ Although, I never imagined Pat & Ali's logs would be picked through and basically there journey would be beat to death by so called "Pros of the sailing world" No I am not trying to start another war so to speak. Some things must be taken with a grain of salt

I still can’t believe how many people have criticized this couple for their choices of food? I personally understand and can relate to them wanting a hamburger or pizza~ maybe it is the age difference no offense.
Hubby & I have traveled extensively not on a boat but by plane. Every time I am in another country after so many weeks I want something that reminds me of home.. In Thailand after 16 days I could not wait to find a big fat, juicy burger.. but that is another story..

It has been great to read all the comments especially those that support Pat & Ali on their adventures! Ahh, so you now see where I am aligned :O)
Anyway, glad to see many of you enjoyed there logs, there is one thing we have in common.. at least we can all laugh together ~ for one reason or another!!

oh and just an FYI I never intended this post to be so harsh!! I really thought it would revolve around how the manufactor / seller of bumfuzzle conducted business.. what a suprise that it was not!! Hopefully, Pat & Ali got many hits to their site resulting from this fiasco! :O)

CSY Man · 08-10-2005, 09:19

Quote:

basically there journey would be beat to death by so called "Pros of the sailing world"

Don't think anybody around here have claimed to be "Pros of the sailing wolrd".

Where did ya get that idea..?

Try "the common sense crowd" instead....

GordMay · 08-10-2005, 16:36

Dag:
uhhh ... that might have been me. Note my e-mail address.

”... don't think anybody around here have claimed to be "Pros of the sailing wolrd"...”

CSY Man · 08-10-2005, 16:43

Quote:

uhhh ... that might have been me. Note my e-mail address

Nah, they ain't that sharp....

sneuman · 09-10-2005, 04:50

What did this young couple do for a living to be able to afford a 160k boat, 30k or so for refit, 35k for a major repair ...?

A hint of jealousy in the question? You bet! I'm 10 years older than these two Gen Xers and I have scrimped for every fastener and done all the work myself in refitting my 30-year-old sloop for a passage. And how rewarding that has been: trolling markets in Hong Kong and Bangkok for boat bits has allowed me to use my (very little) Cantonese and (little more) Thai. I know a canvas shop that does great work for about 1/10th what I would have paid from a "marine" shop; I know where to get stainless you-name-it anywhere in either city.

And doing the work myself (including replacing bulkheads) has had me crawl through every inch below decks. On at least one occassion, I thought I might meet my end wedged head down in the bilge, feet sticking out of the lazarette. Before I bought Eroica, I knew little about engines; now I fancy myself (perhaps a little too optimistically) a marginally competent diesel mechanic. In short, I KNOW that boat inside and out. I think that counts for a lot - and it's experience you can't get by hiring someone to do it for you!

12-09-2005, 00:19	#167
Alan Wheeler Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Marlborough Sounds. New Zealand Boat: Hartley Tahitian 45ft. Leisure Lady Posts: 8,042	Wow!, this is my 854th post. I didn't realise that. Thanks for letting me know that Janice. But I think ya failed to read one or two other statistics there Janice. When I started Posting and thus the average of just 1.3 posts per day. Or that could be looked at another way. I was born in 1962, that makes me 43 nearly 44. I grew up in a family with boats and can remember being on boats before much else. The first time I got to control a sailboat and she was 40ft, was when I was 12. I owned my own boat, which was a Paper Tiger when I was 17. That's because I had to get a job to be able to buy my own boat. At one point in life, I worked for sometime fitting equipment to vessels both large and small and having to take them out and test or comission them. I worked in Chandlery for several years and was well trained in many different aspects of equipment and was also a service agent for several brands of electronics. I have yacht raced large yachts for many years and am about to do one from Auckland to Russell. And oh look, I have now done what I wasn't going to, I have spouted on about myself. As for Florida to South America in 3 days. Girl, go get your Atlas out and take a look at how far that is. I don't know what the Departure and Arrival ports for the person in question were, but if someone took the shortest possible route, it is like sailing from Melbourne to Cairns. If you can do that in 3 days, you better take you and ya boat and enter the next Sydney to Hobart, because you'll smash the race record by doing it in hours not days. Oh but, you probably can't enter the Sydney to Hobart, becasue you wouldn't have the experiance that is required by the Authorities to be able to participate and we certainly know you can't use Pat and Ali's boat, because it doesn't come up to the safety requirements of Cat1. OK know I have just broken my own personal rule number two, I retaliated. Sorry Gord, I will try better next time. __________________ Wheels For God so loved the world..........He didn't send a committee.

12-09-2005, 18:28	#169
Catamount Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Keene, NH Boat: Island Yachts Peterson 34 GREYHAWK Posts: 252	*Rate Time = Distance** or distance / time = rate so 1184 nautical miles (Miami to Caracas) in 3 nights (4 days? let's say 72 to 84 hours) = 14 to 16 knots. Is that an unreasonable average speed for a 57' catamaran reaching across the trade winds? Regards, Tim __________________ Tim Allen My Boat Projects and Sailing Stories Sailors for the Sea, a new voice for ocean conservation Last edited by Catamount; 12-09-2005 at 18:38.

13-09-2005, 06:18	#172
Catamount Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Keene, NH Boat: Island Yachts Peterson 34 GREYHAWK Posts: 252	I just don't have any experience sailing on big cats (or small ones for that matter), so I don't know if 15 knots is realistic or not. I gather that they're supposed to have the potential to reach at much faster speeds than a monohull. I know that the Dashew's design their big monohull cruising boats to be sailed by couples at average speeds approaching 12 knots (or something like that). My main point was simply to inject a little quantitative reasoning into the assessment of Janice's claim. Yeah, a 3-night (and 4 day) passage of 1200 miles seems extremely unrealistic to those of us used to short-handed cruising on smaller, slower, displacement monohulls; and it may still be a bit of an exaggeration for a big cat but might not be all that far-fetched. (Disclaimer: this is not an endorsement of anyone's claims, least of all Pat & Ali's mis-adventures.) Regards, Tim __________________ Tim Allen My Boat Projects and Sailing Stories Sailors for the Sea, a new voice for ocean conservation

13-09-2005, 08:06	#173
capt lar Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cape Cod Boat: currently "on the beach" Posts: 729	actually mario - to receive the coveted "sailing pope" classification, you have to sail a 57 foot cat from FL to South America in about 3 nights! at that point you can refer to the trip as a mere "hop". documentation of the trip is required and only those trips certified by the SPC (sailing pope club) are recognized. there is a special burgee you can fly and a large ring kissing ceremony. as you can imagine, there are very few living "sailing popes", since the extreme lifestyle often leads to an early death. i, myself have never met a "sailing pope", but i did once meet a "cruising nudist", but that's another story. democracy, backed up by law, insures freedom of speech, but if you personally insult someone and make comments about their wife, odds are you will get punched in the nose. is it not so in portugal ? capt. lar __________________ Larry We have met the enemy and he is us. - Walt Kelly

13-09-2005, 13:42	#175
Alan Wheeler Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Marlborough Sounds. New Zealand Boat: Hartley Tahitian 45ft. Leisure Lady Posts: 8,042	Well, it's refreshing to say the least, to see the course this thread is now taking. So let me wade in up to my knees and paddle about for a mo. If you could sail that distance in the alledged time, I think you would make rank one above Pope for starters Remember, the distance described is straight lining. There are a couple of obsticles in the way (at least on my map) that would need moving slightly. So Pope is definately not a high enough rank. The speed of 16knts is an average. Take a look at the big recording setting racing cats and tri's and what max speeds they have to endure to make averages of 16knts. So you would be enduring average winds speeds and thus cruising speeds that would either mean you definately hold higher ranking than Pope and can thus control the elements or you are definitely a praying Man, cause you would be on your knees praying the entire trip and most definitely there for the ride only Yes indeedy, it would be a deeply religouse experiance, whom ever you are. __________________ Wheels For God so loved the world..........He didn't send a committee.

12-09-2005, 17:06	#168
Kai Nui Guest Posts: n/a	OK Wheels, now it's my turn. YIKES!!!!

13-09-2005, 05:46	#171
Mario Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Lisbon, Portugal Posts: 15	My God, how disapointed I am with you guys... I really enjoyed starting writing to this thread, but know I realized it's really pointless. You guys must be the sailing popes or something. And you should all go live to the USA and join GW Bush's republican party, as you guys are all but democrates! Thank God you are nobodies, like the rest of us...

13-09-2005, 11:33	#174
Mario Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Lisbon, Portugal Posts: 15	Capt Lar, Portugal is a great country. Set sail and come here. I'll buy you a beer. What the heack, come here and I'll buy you a whole bunch of beers!

08-10-2005, 09:09	#176
rhonda Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 9	Wow what a conversation piece this has turned into !! (The post that is) I have been out of pocket so to speak ~ and just now catching up on this thread.. Which is taking forever lol ~ Although, I never imagined Pat & Ali's logs would be picked through and basically there journey would be beat to death by so called "Pros of the sailing world" No I am not trying to start another war so to speak. Some things must be taken with a grain of salt I still can’t believe how many people have criticized this couple for their choices of food? I personally understand and can relate to them wanting a hamburger or pizza~ maybe it is the age difference no offense. Hubby & I have traveled extensively not on a boat but by plane. Every time I am in another country after so many weeks I want something that reminds me of home.. In Thailand after 16 days I could not wait to find a big fat, juicy burger.. but that is another story.. It has been great to read all the comments especially those that support Pat & Ali on their adventures! Ahh, so you now see where I am aligned :O) Anyway, glad to see many of you enjoyed there logs, there is one thing we have in common.. at least we can all laugh together ~ for one reason or another!! oh and just an FYI I never intended this post to be so harsh!! I really thought it would revolve around how the manufactor / seller of bumfuzzle conducted business.. what a suprise that it was not!! Hopefully, Pat & Ali got many hits to their site resulting from this fiasco! :O)

08-10-2005, 16:36	#178
GordMay Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W Boat: C.L.O.D. (Cruiser Living On Dirt) Posts: 12,575	Dag: uhhh ... that might have been me. Note my e-mail address. ”... don't think anybody around here have claimed to be "Pros of the sailing wolrd"...” __________________ Gord May ~~_/)_~~ (Gord & Maggie - "Southbound") "If you didn't have time/$ to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"

09-10-2005, 04:50	#180
sneuman Senior Cruiser Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Severna Park, MD Boat: Tayana 37 Cutter - "Symbiosis" Posts: 1,117	What did this young couple do for a living to be able to afford a 160k boat, 30k or so for refit, 35k for a major repair ...? A hint of jealousy in the question? You bet! I'm 10 years older than these two Gen Xers and I have scrimped for every fastener and done all the work myself in refitting my 30-year-old sloop for a passage. And how rewarding that has been: trolling markets in Hong Kong and Bangkok for boat bits has allowed me to use my (very little) Cantonese and (little more) Thai. I know a canvas shop that does great work for about 1/10th what I would have paid from a "marine" shop; I know where to get stainless you-name-it anywhere in either city. And doing the work myself (including replacing bulkheads) has had me crawl through every inch below decks. On at least one occassion, I thought I might meet my end wedged head down in the bilge, feet sticking out of the lazarette. Before I bought Eroica, I knew little about engines; now I fancy myself (perhaps a little too optimistically) a marginally competent diesel mechanic. In short, I KNOW that boat inside and out. I think that counts for a lot - and it's experience you can't get by hiring someone to do it for you! Last edited by sneuman; 17-03-2006 at 11:35.

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