Unfortunate turn!

[jasonedu]

I wish i was born knowing it all as well but some us are not that lucky.

These guys are out there getting experience the best way possible - by doing it. Did you have experience sailing in >35 knots the first time you went out? Of course not. So how did you get that experience? err let me guess.

They started out sailing down the coast of the US and then island hopping around the carabean. Sounds like a reasonable approach to me.

What use are comments such as "Youth (or is it ignorance?) can truly be wasted on the young"? If this is the best the so called experienced sailors can offer then i am not suprised pat and ali steer clear of the likes of you and your advice. In your defence though eurocruiser your later post "Making lemonade from lemons..." is full of good advice and information. Lets have more of it

What value do all these negative posts have. If you have some advice or information then please share it.

If all you want to do is bang on about how good you have always been and how silly pat and ali are then stop reading their website and stop following this thread.

[boredinthecity]

jasonedu said

wish i was born knowing it all as well but some us are not that lucky

very true so maybe I can help you out a little

Pat @ Al are members of ths forum and their first post read

Hi everybody Just wanted to invite everybody to check out our website www.Bumfuzzle.com since when we were researching our circumnavigation all I wanted to do was read about other peoples...

As a reader of Pat @ Ali blog you will be well aware the they have no reservation about critising people and places they come across and to be fair they take exactly the same approach to what they like.

SO they have invited us to look at their blog, and the right that they exercise to make judgments on issues has been applied in this thread. No one as I am aware has suggested that they shouldn’t be out there and personal I think that it is good that they have taken the opportunity. Also no one has suggest that they are not nice people, misguide perhaps.

However some of us are concerned that they may have been better advised to do certain things differently. If other are inspired by Pat and Ali or for that matter any of the other cruisers out there that is great. But personally I would be distressed to find others that think that it is a cruising blue print if such a thing exists.

You said

If all you want to do is bang on about how good you have always been and how silly pat and ali are then stop reading their website and stop following this thread.

Excuse me, they invited us to look, they provide a link to this forum so please tell me what right you have to come here and make that statement. I would suggest with the greatest of respect that you should consider your own advice

However I would invite you to point out the things that they are doing right or their continuing development as cruiser – which I did in my last post

Paul

[Talbot]

It is a well known fact tha the best way to learn is through making mistakes and then recognising what should have been done. Some of these mistakes are hilarious, some of them down right dangerous. My favourite section of the yachty mags is the "confessions" bit, cause if you think through some of these problems yourself beforehand, when you actually experience it for real, the brain remembers the previous thought processes, and (hopefully) the correct answer is supplied . Rather than slag off these adventurous couple, it is better to take note of their errors and decide whether the response is correct, or whether there is a better solution. Culinary preferences are irrelevant and harm nobody but themselves. incorrect decisions about sailing/safety taken as the gospel could put other lives at risk and should be challenged and debated.

[Alan Wheeler]

Good points Talbot. And at this Point, Pat & Ali, If you are following this, here's an invitation. Join back in here. DON'T take these past threads the wrong way. People are not being nasty behind your back, Well 99% aren't anyway. And you would find that out for real, if you were posting here. Infact, it seems to be a few newbies here, that either aren't reading the entire postings of threads from day one, that seem to be missinterpreting what some of us have implied.
But anyway's, we could all learn from your (Pat and Ali) experiances. That's All of us, me, you and others here. Like for instance, (just to dredge it up again) if you asked, whats the downside of painting the tall pole thing with a flag on grey, ones here could have told you, hang about, that thing is a Dan-bouy and you have to be able to see it in ruff water from a distance, cause it may save your partners life, then you probably would have left it rescue orange, or at least know the consequences if you didn't.
I even emailed you guy's with some advice, don't know if you listened or not, but I know there is enough expertese here, that could have talked you through many of the problems you have had.
Everyone, just imagine if Pat lost his engine coming into that Marina in the blow they had. That would have been it. The end of the journey right there and then. How fortuneate can people get. Anybody else and laws of Ole Murphey would have jumped on them like a ton of bricks.

[gunpilot]

Point taken Al, and yes, I do need a vacation.........


Bobby

"Edie Marie"
GEM 34
Apalachicola FL

[Starbuck]

As has already been noted, an instructive and refreshing companion read to the Buzz-fumble logs are those of Steve Mulholland and Nicole Fesette aboard Turtlebones.

These folks actually want to be taught, and experience personal growth through their voyage. The contrast is telling.

[boredinthecity]

A question for anyone of this thread that’s new to cruising and planning to set off in the next 12 months,

Who read the issue about the P&A Australia visa and didn’t check their own plans?

My passport was out of date

Paul

[MTsailor]

I ran across the Bumfuzzle site and the link to this one recently and have read most of Pat and Ali’s logs. (I skipped some of the road trips.) I have subsequently read a majority of the comments on this site and figure that since I’m just sitting here between chores I’d throw my 2 pesos in.

First a little background: I’m a “wanna-go-again” cruiser. I started out like Pat and Ali, buying my first cruising boat in my mid-20’s (I’m now 55, and considered ancient by most in that age group). When I first came across the Bumfuzzle site I was very impressed, and still am, by the depth of information that they are posting. Very valuable stuff, no matter what your level of experience. I love reading about anybody’s adventures when it comes to cruising under sail, because I’ve done it and as soon as I sell the ranch am off again.

I think a lot of people who read postings like Pat & Ali’s tend to take for granted the fact that they are even taking the time to share their experiences online. Yes, I have to admit I’ve laughed with and at them, and been amazed at their nonchalance, (mostly, like a lot of you, I’ve been envious that they are out there doing it), but really, I feel privileged to share in their adventures, good or bad.

Some of the safety issues have given me pause, but then I look back at when I started out and even though I worked my way up the sailing/cruising ladder (more on that later) I had to start somewhere. Like P&A, I couldn’t wait, so I went out there and just did it. I read the Natl. Geographic articles about Robin Graham and Dove and the Johnson’s on Yankee. I bought Chapmans and Heavy Weather Sailing and read a little book my dad gave me titled Learning To Sail and figured I was good to go. Now, mind you I’d ‘messed around’ on little power boats at the lake in the summer and was in the Boy Scouts, so I did know how the rabbit came out of the hole and went around the tree, but sailing…..sailing was a romantic and somewhat mysterious notion that I sooo wanted to experience.

My young bride and I cut our teeth on a SF Bay Pelican. At the end of that first summer I saw an ad for a 1936 gaff rigged schooner. I did the P&A style purchase-over-the-weekend thing. I was so excited that it had a diesel that when the owner told me that it was a Jenbacher, I just acted like I’d heard of it and gladly accepted the trunk load of spare parts that came with it. We moved aboard and promptly began to find the leaks in the deck. If I ever posted stories about duct-taping sandwich bags under the leaks, poking the bowsprit through the boathouse in front of our siip, etc. boy would people grumble.

After some initial sailing we decided it was time to head from our home port in Gig Harbor, WA to SE Alaska. Never mind that it was September and the end of the cruising season. Never mind that we didn’t have a VHF. We had a depth sounder and a transistor radio. And a diesel engine. Half way to Alaska we were anchored in a quiet little cove and the engine wouldn’t start. The glow plugs had burnt out. Not unlike P&A, we found a tavern, had a burger and a beer then hitchhiked to Vancouver-a twenty hour trip-to find the Jenbacher dealer. My engine manual listed a place in Vancouver as the North American distributor for parts. Upon finding the place, which in itself seemed miraculous, we were promptly informed that they were no longer the N. A. distributor. They had sold out to some guy who owned a schooner down in Washington. To my chagrin, I realized that I was that guy.

I did go on to other boats, cruised Alaska, the Hawaiian Islands, Mexico, the Caribbean, did the canal – even became an America’s Cup crewmember before coming back to my roots here in Montana. We all have to start somewhere. I hope I never forget how little I knew when I did. Now I want to go again. And I know I’ll make mistakes. I just hope I have the nerve to share my adventures, like Pat and Ali, with the rest of the world.

Remember: You can loose your sense of direction or your sense of smell, but never loose your sense of humor.

[TigerPaws]

As for me after many thousands of miles sailing the oceans, I do not have any problem how Bumfuzzles crew comports themselves but agree or not they are a danger to themselves and to those who might have to risk their lives to save their sorry asses. They venture out into the oceans without a clue as to the dangers, do they know how to use a sextant, a compass? from their logs I would say no. What happens when their electronics take a dump because of piss poor maint. and fail or worse yet neglect.
As I have said I wish them the best of luck because they are going to need all they can get.

Michael
SeaQuest OE
Lagoon 570 refitting in Florida for our next adventure

[janiceyork299]

I recently met Pat and Ali while they were in Melbourne, and after reading this message board am completely shocked by some of the things that have been said.

First off is the guy who implied that Pat and Ali are traipsing around the world on daddy's money while he had to work on a fishing boat for 7 years. Do you have any idea what Ali and Pat did for a living? Believe me, it's not daddy's money.

Next is Alan Wheeler's implication that Ali should get off the boat immediately because she isn't safe. Seems to me that Ali and Pat are equals in this journey. So why do you seem to be saying that Ali can't handle the boat by herself? Maybe treating your wife that way is the reason you are still sitting at the dock.

And the most recent post by the guy on the Lagoon 570. Are you seriously trying to compare your little trip to South America with the trip that Ali and Pat have taken on their 35 foot cat? How many crew do you have on that boat anyway?

Give me a break people. Read Ali and Pat's latest update and maybe you will finally understand that they have more sailing experience than 99% of you in here, and they have every right to be out there.

I can't wait to follow them the rest of the way around the world!

Janice

[Alan Wheeler]

Aweee sheesh, here we go again. Are you a troll????You just trying to Rock the boat here or what?
Look Janice, I am not going to get in any argument with you or anyone here. But it seems you are calling the Kettle black. I get the hint you are thinking we are all snobs and biased and are all wanna be sailors that never leave a dock. Or if not all, then at least me. Yet you have done just that with me and others here. You have accused us on several points without knowing one single person here, knowing what skills anyone may have or not have, just plain ignorance. What do we know of Pat and Ali? well Personaly maybe no one here knows them. But we do know them by what they place in their PUBLIC VIEWABLE log.
Now I suggest you go back and read ALL the posts in this thread. Read them all carefully and IN THEIR CONTEXT. Because you seem to take great liberty at taking many of the posts out of context. At least mine have been.
Oh and seeing as you don't know me, how do you know if I am sitting at a dock or not.
Sorry Lady, you have no clue as to who I am(nor my wife for that matter), what I have done, what I am doing and what I intend to do. Not that any of that is important to anyone else but me anyway.

[nockerwhite]

It might be interesting to read 'Shrimpy' by Shane Acton. Left his own home inland city - Cambrige - by river in an 18' marine ply cruiser, no engine, no dinghy, he acquired a Woolworths inflatable toy boat and a small outboard later on the journey, never sailed before and commenced his unrushed circumnavigation forthwith with 400 pounds sterling capital, using the two canals. Part of the way he had a female companion. Prince Philip caught up with him in 'Oz'! Had previously had experience of power boats as a Royal Marine Commando that was all. He returned up the river to his home 'port'- not his last journey!
Kind of puts things in perspective?

[Alan Wheeler]

Arrr just to be sure everyone is clear, "Troll" is an internet term for someone trolling, as in fishing, up trouble. Comments are made to see if they can stir the pot and bring peoples comments to a boil.
The problem we have with this thread now, is that it is huge. It has to be the biggest we have on this BB. So going back through all the threads to see what ones have said and in what context is very difficult. Now add to that the fact that we each have a language, even though it is English, it is still different. And finally, no one can truely hear the manner in which something is expressed as we each write. The danger is taking something that is meant in kind words as if it was down the nose snobbery or anger or what ever.
I have said this before and I will say it again. But I suspect that it will simply get lost among the miriad of replies in this topic.
But hopefully Janice will read this.

NOBODY is knocking Pat and Ali personally. Get that clear.

I imagine they to be great people and they look a lovely fun couple. I think it is great that they have taken on this adventure and more power to them. We all here wish them the best and wish them calm sea's and fair winds. BUT.......
There are some things they have done that have been a little scary to think about.
WE HAVE ALL DONE SIMILAR THINGS in our lives of learning to sailing. The difference??? they have chosen to place their exploits on a Public domain, for all to view and thus for all to comment.

Janice, surely yourself, if YOU have any sailing experiance, would have to agree that somethings have been a little hairy. They have gotten away with problems so far, but what if..... and the what if's happen out there. I just can't believe their luck or Gods grace to them so far.
When they were here in NZ, I was Emailing them privately and offering advice on weather windows. Maybe they listened, maybe they didn't. I know they came across localised winds of 30knts and more. But one thing for sure, they didn't experiance what could have been dealt to them out there. I hope they never get to experiance it, but at the same time, when the swells are at the hight of the top of your mast, you realise you are very small and insignificant out there and things had better be right with your boat. And although I am not going to enter a contest here and boast of what I have done, I will say yes, I have experianced conditions like that on several occasions. And that's as far as I am going to go.

[Alan Wheeler]

yeah well to be honest, I was thinking two thoughts when I wrote the word Troll. (slaps back of hand as thinks, naughty me )
Isn't it interesting though, that we haven't heard from Janice again. Hmmm, maybe it's early days, but I hate those "hit and run" troll type posts. It makes the person that starts something like that, absolultely no better and in fact worse, than what they have accused others as and of anyway.

[janiceyork299]

Hello again from the Troll,

I agree with what you guys are saying about people posting things about things they know nothing about, such as the guy stating that Pat and Ali are cruising on daddy's money.

Alan, the reason I know you are sitting at the dock is because you have the time to make 850 posts! Nobody with that many posts could possibly be out cruising.

And yes, I still say the trip from FL to South America is a hop. On a 57 foot cat that trip could be made in about 3 nights! That's a hop!

Last post from me. Have fun in your cyber cruising world.

Janice