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Old 14-12-2012, 05:24   #31
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Re: Unethical Surveyor ?

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Originally Posted by S/V Illusion View Post
What harm has it caused you?

What bearing does this have on the purchase process given no major issues were identified?
It says to me that the Surveyor and Broker are acting together - which IMO makes the survey not worth the paper it is written on (as an independent assessement of the boat's condition).
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Old 14-12-2012, 06:20   #32
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Re: Unethical Surveyor ?

Ask the broker for a copy of the report because yours "has not arrived yet". Then you will know for sure whether the broker has the surveyor's report or not.

Check the contract you signed with the broker. Some state they can have a copy of the survey. For future reference if you don't agree with this then cross this section out and put your signature next to it. You cannot complain after the event if you did not read the contract.
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Old 14-12-2012, 06:37   #33
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Re: Unethical Surveyor ?

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
It says to me that the Surveyor and Broker are acting together - which IMO makes the survey not worth the paper it is written on (as an independent assessement of the boat's condition).
That would be my concern also. If the relationship between the surveyor and the broker is overly cozy, then you can't trust the survey. And it sounds like that may be the case.

On the other hand, it does seem that a lot of people are jumping to conclusions here. We haven't heard back from the OP, don't know the details of what (if anything) the surveyor shared with the broker, and obviously haven't heard the surveyor's explanation. As such, I think it's a bit premature to recommend that the OP just completely walk away from the deal.

He certainly deserves a complete explanation from the surveyor, though. I would do what I could to hold payment until I got that explanation, and then I would decide what to do from there.
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Old 14-12-2012, 07:35   #34
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Re: Unethical Surveyor ?

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
It says to me that the Surveyor and Broker are acting together - which IMO makes the survey not worth the paper it is written on (as an independent assessement of the boat's condition).
That too is an assumption.

The issue of confidentiality which relates to home appraisals has no relevance here - this wasn't an appraisal nor was it conducted on a home. Extrapolating guidelines from one profession to another is senseless.

As to losing "leverage", that might be true if the potential buyer wanted to deceive the seller into thinking there was a problem which, according to this poster, doesn't exist. Deceit isn't usually a good rationale for withholding info regardless of who owns it.

Obviously opinions vary. What isn't arguable is the ability to the potential buyer to back out regardless of who saw what first so again, there has been no harm here except perhaps pride.
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Old 14-12-2012, 09:14   #35
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I am in the process of purchasing another boat and just had the survey done. I live in another state from where the boat is located and have been waiting for the past few days for the survey results . Today the selling broker calls me and tells me he has seen the survey and everything looks good. Why is the surveyor showing the selling broker the survey in the first place...I have always been under the impression that I own the survey and nobody sees it but me. Even worse is that I haven't even seen it yet. WTF !!
While we all agree that this is unethical, the issue is what is the impact on the purchase. If he found no issues then there is no need for further negotiation and the deal could go forward. If there are issues, then negotiations should occur. If you are now believing that the surveyor was biased, then perhaps a second survey should be done.

The final option is the "poison pill"--- advise the seller that the deal is off, using the survey as your basis. This will cost you the price of the survey and haul-out, and cause you to loose a boat you apparently liked..... it is an option

If you do not wish to name the surveyor, would you name where the boat is located?

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Old 14-12-2012, 09:29   #36
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Re: Unethical Surveyor ?

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That too is an assumption.
I think a perfectly reasonable assumption - if they were not working together why else would the Surveyer share the survey with the Broker (of the Vendor)? It simply makes no other sense .

Having said that, I won't discount that they were primarily working for benefit of themselves (to make own lives eaisier and therefore more profitable), rather than actually for the Vendor......but that still don't mean they are acting in my own interest, and in the case of the Surveyor that is what I expect to have paid for.

Survey not worth the paper it was written on (apart from to the Broker / Vendor as a freebie marketing brochure).
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Old 14-12-2012, 09:33   #37
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Re: Unethical Surveyor ?

At the very least I'd contact the surveyor's governing body and ask them if this is accepted practice. You don't need to name the surveyor to go that far and then based on their response you can decide if you want to file a formal complaint.

I think the phrase "ethical surveyor" is an oxy-moron but perhaps if more buyers were more informed and pursued matters further the profession would clean itself up a bit. As to what to do on this particular deal it seems to me if you offered and agreed on a price and the survey really did come up clean then you probably just need to swallow your pride and close the deal. If you really expected the survey to dig up something that you didn't know already then you likely shouldn't be buying a boat.
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Old 14-12-2012, 09:57   #38
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Re: Unethical Surveyor ?

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As to what to do on this particular deal it seems to me if you offered and agreed on a price and the survey really did come up clean then you probably just need to swallow your pride and close the deal.
IMO if the survey came up 100% clean then the only thing it says is that you are being stitched up .

Quote:
If you really expected the survey to dig up something that you didn't know already then you likely shouldn't be buying a boat.
Perhaps harsh, but a lot of truth in it - not to say don't buy, but do so at least expecting to later pay for some learning curve.........
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Old 14-12-2012, 10:53   #39
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Re: Unethical Surveyor ?

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If you really expected the survey to dig up something that you didn't know already then you likely shouldn't be buying a boat.
I don't "expect" the survey to dig up something that I missed, but that is--in the end--the reason I pay for a survey.

I hire a surveyor who has more experience than I do crawling around in all sorts of boats, and more expertise in things like the ABYC standards, to put another set of eyes on the boat. I do that in the hopes that he will notice, and call to my attention, anything significantly wrong that I might have missed. This is exactly the same reason that I pay for an inspection before I buy a house.

Just like home inspectors, boat surveyors sometimes miss things. No one is perfect. But the hope, nonetheless, is that if I missed anything important, he will see it. Why else would I pay for a pre-purchase survey?

This applies, of course, most especially to anyone who is relatively new to boats and/or to boat buying.
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Old 14-12-2012, 10:57   #40
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Re: Unethical Surveyor ?

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
I think a perfectly reasonable assumption - if they were not working together why else would the Surveyer share the survey with the Broker (of the Vendor)? It simply makes no other sense .

Having said that, I won't discount that they were primarily working for benefit of themselves (to make own lives eaisier and therefore more profitable), rather than actually for the Vendor......but that still don't mean they are acting in my own interest, and in the case of the Surveyor that is what I expect to have paid for.

Survey not worth the paper it was written on (apart from to the Broker / Vendor as a freebie marketing brochure).
Every broker is "working for himself". They don't do this out of charitable motivation. Nor do surveyors. If your opinion of surveys is that they are "not worth the paper it was written on", the whole issue becomes moot regardless of who read it first.

As to the question of collusion, it is an equally good assumption that in the absence of the buyer, the broker is simply trying to move the process along expeditiously which would be to everyone's benefit being there were apparently no issues identified in the survey.

The point is assumptions are often wrong and as there was no harm done to anyone, this is fundamentally an issue of who got to read it first; an issue of little, if any impact.
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Old 14-12-2012, 11:14   #41
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Re: Unethical Surveyor ?

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...and as there was no harm done to anyone...
And that, TOO, is just an assumption!

You don't know if there was any harm done or not. If there is, in fact, collusion between the surveyor and the broker, then it is entirely possible that some harm HAS been done. That's why the OP needs to talk to the surveyor, ask some very pointed questions, and get a satisfactory explanation as to why the survey that he paid for, and that was supposed to be delivered to him, was (apparently) given to someone else first.
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