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Old 23-05-2014, 19:23   #286
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pirate Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

I'd hazard a guess a UFO strike at speed.. but I'm usually wrong..

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
What do people make of this part of the report from the swimmer:

They found the cabin of the yacht was flooded and the windows shattered. The yacht's keel was also broken, causing a breach in the hull, a spokesman added.

What would cause shattered ports in a capsize? Or was the capsize caused by a wave that broke the ports. Perhaps the keel failed after the boat rolled? Or were the ports broken by the crew to escape?

And if the keel bolts failed, would there be a hull breach? Are they maybe just referring to the keel bolt holes or did the fiberglass fail?
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Old 23-05-2014, 19:42   #287
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

Lots of questions.

In the meantime, thank you to all the professional services and the civilians who went out there and aided in the search.

I know the times that S&R win make it a great day, and this day was not one of them.

There is a poem written by Mary Elisabeth Frye, that I have had the privelege of using from time to time.

Do not stand at my grave and weep
I am not there.
I do not sleep.
I am a thousand winds that blow.
I am the diamond glints on the snow.
I am the sunlight on ripened grain.
I am the gentle autumn rain.
When you awaken in the morning’s hush
I am the swift uplifting rush
Of quiet birds in circled flight.
I am the soft stars that shine at night.
Do not stand at my grave and cry;
I am not there. I did not die.


Goodbye guys. So very sorry for the families.
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Old 23-05-2014, 19:52   #288
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlF View Post

What would cause shattered ports in a capsize? Or was the capsize caused by a wave that broke the ports.
As it was a swimmer, not a diver, it must mean the hull port holes, not the cabin hatches in the topsides. They take a lot to break. And too small to get out of.

Thats got to be a catastrophic event.

Very sad.
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Old 23-05-2014, 19:59   #289
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Just saw this on BBC
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-27551917
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Old 23-05-2014, 20:05   #290
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

Sure looks like a UFO.
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Old 23-05-2014, 20:34   #291
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

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Sure looks like a UFO.
OMG! Did the fore and aft bolts fail first then?
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Old 23-05-2014, 20:35   #292
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

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Sure looks like a UFO.
Damn
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Old 23-05-2014, 20:41   #293
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

Does that look like rust around the aft bolt hole?
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Old 23-05-2014, 20:43   #294
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

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Does that look like rust around the aft bolt hole?
Yep, just blown the picture up and looking at that...and maybe a bit around the forward one too?
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Old 23-05-2014, 20:49   #295
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

Carl,
1) Initial, on-scene reports can often be found to have inaccuracies in them....so, I would not put 100% force behind all the detailed info regarding what damage was noted....and, of course variations in nomenclature and passing info from person-to-person-to-person-to-person can also cause inaccuracies....
And, yes the force of the sea CAN shatter ports....
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
What do people make of this part of the report from the swimmer:

They found the cabin of the yacht was flooded and the windows shattered. The yacht's keel was also broken, causing a breach in the hull, a spokesman added.

What would cause shattered ports in a capsize? Or was the capsize caused by a wave that broke the ports. Perhaps the keel failed after the boat rolled? Or were the ports broken by the crew to escape?
2) Secondly, it is quite possible that we will never actually know the details of this incident, nor the exact cause of how/why it occurred....(unless the hull is recovered and a full forensic analysis is performed)
But, I doubt the keel failed after the capsize, but rather the capsize was the result of the keel failure/separation....(i.e. my guess is, the boat rolled violently after the keel tore-off...)

3) If we piece together the facts that we do have:
a) that they reported taking on water, but couldn't find where from...
b) the total loss of the keel....
c) the photo showing the entire keel torn-off, what appears to be enlarged keel-bolt holes, and some hull skin/fiberglass around the keel torn-away...

We can make some educated assumptions....
---- The keel was loose for a while prior to the total loss...allowing the water they were taking-on, into the boat...
---- At some point (early last Friday AM) it got significantly worse/looser, and the force of the sea (and leverage of the rig/sails) against the keel surface, took its final toll and the keel was torn out-of the boat...



While some may speculate striking an underwater object was the cause of this....I'm NOT one of them....
Combining these two things:
--as the photographic evidence doesn't show any longitudal (fore-aft) damage, but DOES show significant lateral (side-to-side) damage...
-- and the fact that they reported taking on water, and were in some fairly heavy weather....
In my opinion, seems to emphasize failure from loose keel bolts and the force of the sea, rather than striking an underwater object...
(again, just my educated opinion...)


And if the keel bolts failed, would there be a hull breach? Are they maybe just referring to the keel bolt holes or did the fiberglass fail?
4) I'd say the "hull breach" is evident in the photo (the keel bolt holes and whatever hull skin / fiberglass was torn off when the keel separated from the hull)....
Again, just my take...



With the liferaft still on-board, these hearty sailors are unfortunately lost from our world now...
My prayers go out to the families of these 4 hearty sailors...
God Speed my friends...




John
s/v Annie Laurie
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Old 23-05-2014, 20:51   #296
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

Can't believe that can be called a sufficient attachment in the first place?
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Old 23-05-2014, 20:56   #297
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

Maybe clutching at straws but there is some talk of a 2nd liferaft? Would such a boat really carry two? I am told that a MCA category 0 coded yacht should have two....
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Old 23-05-2014, 21:15   #298
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

I'm still trying to understand the picture. It appears to show three broken bolts (two forward and one aft) and a center 18"x6" (?) section of laminate pulled entirely out such that we are looking at water in the middle of the keel mount?

And an outer layer of laminate from the starboard hull was also peeled off?

Do we know how many bolts are in a 40.7? Are they just a single line down the middle?

If three bolts broke (or had previously broken), the remaining attachment would have been under incredible stress.
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Old 23-05-2014, 21:15   #299
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

ka4wja, thanks for posting your old crossing route. I enjoyed reading that and following your chart.

It does seem likely to me that the catastrophic failure of the keel occurred without warning given that there is minimal damage to the hull keel joint and though they did state that were taking in water there was to my knowledge no further distress call respecting this issue.

God bless them.
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Old 23-05-2014, 21:22   #300
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

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Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
I'm still trying to understand the picture. It appears to show three broken bolts (two forward and one aft) and a center 18"x6" (?) section of laminate pulled entirely out such that we are looking at water in the middle of the keel mount?

And an outer layer of laminate from the starboard hull was also peeled off?

Do we know how many bolts are in a 40.7? Are they just a single line down the middle?

If three bolts broke (or had previously broken), the remaining attachment would have been under incredible stress.
I heard ten and they look like all down the middle
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