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Old 23-05-2014, 15:53   #271
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

keel came off? And the builder was?
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Old 23-05-2014, 15:58   #272
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pirate Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

Still cannot understand why they were so far West.. what is this thing that says going via Bermuda is safer..??
If they sailed for the Azores they'd have made it.. or been close enough for a better/quicker response..
Sorry.. I just don't get it..
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Old 23-05-2014, 16:03   #273
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Still cannot understand why they were so far West.. what is this thing that says going via Bermuda is safer..??
If they sailed for the Azores they'd have made it.. or been close enough for a better/quicker response..
Sorry.. I just don't get it..
Tell me that ol' saying about stayin' below 35o
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Old 23-05-2014, 16:10   #274
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pirate Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

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Tell me that ol' saying about stayin' below 35o
In Feb.. you stay as far below 30deg's as you can get away with.. things only turned to **** when I went N for the Azores..
Guess its down to the 'Great Circle' fantasy..
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Old 23-05-2014, 16:12   #275
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

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In Feb.. you stay as far below 30degrres as you can get away with.. things only turned to **** when I went N for the Azores..
Indeed. I will forever wake up and hear your voice saying' that in my head every day, thank to that lesson.
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Old 23-05-2014, 17:10   #276
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

If the keel falls off, it doesn't matter which route you take. They must have been terrified when it happened.
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Old 23-05-2014, 17:50   #277
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

In the uk, both the Mirror and DailyMail are reporting that the two liferafts were missing from the yacht. Why wouldn't this be on the BBC? Is it accurate?
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Old 23-05-2014, 17:59   #278
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

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Originally Posted by Sailor_Hutch View Post
In the uk, both the Mirror and DailyMail are reporting that the two liferafts were missing from the yacht. Why wouldn't this be on the BBC? Is it accurate?


Mrs Cavalier always claims that the DM breaks stories hours before the BBC.. True in some cases, however, hr Beeb tend to wait to ensure that claims or information is factual before they publish. There's a chance that DM are simply attempting to cause a public uproar over the plan to stop searching at 12am ET... who knows?








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Old 23-05-2014, 18:05   #279
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

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Originally Posted by Cavalier View Post
Mrs Cavalier always claims that the DM breaks stories hours before the BBC.. True in some cases, however, hr Beeb tend to wait to ensure that claims or information is factual before they publish. There's a chance that DM are simply attempting to cause a public uproar over the plan to stop searching at 12am ET... who knows?
Let's hope that this is the time they're right on the dime. The Mirror mentioned two liferafts missing, but not sure how many DM reported. Was it known how many liferafts there were onboard?

Actually, the Mirror (tabloid) article say liferafts are missing, whereas the DM article headline says the US Navy did not find liferafts. The two statements have different nuances.
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Old 23-05-2014, 18:10   #280
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

Phil, I'm still with 'ya here mate....and as you commented a few days back, wondering if they were following some weather router "advice"?
Or maybe they were looking for "an adventure"?
As this was even 300+ nm west of the Great Circle route....there must have been SOME reason for this???
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Still cannot understand why they were so far West.. what is this thing that says going via Bermuda is safer..??
If they sailed for the Azores they'd have made it.. or been close enough for a better/quicker response..
Sorry.. I just don't get it..
This early in the season (It's NOT even summer yet!), I don't get it myself...



And, for anyone interested in a summer route, it is still better to try to stay below 35* until well out past the line which the Lows fly along the fronts...(this line varies from year-to-year, as well as week-to-week . month-to-month....but at least until well east of Bermuda's longitude, typically out to 50*W....)

Although my east-bound Atlantic crossing here was from Florida, not the Caribbean....some may find this informative...

Here is a plot of my actual track from 2007....departed S. Florida afternoon of June 26th...arrived Horta, 20.5 days later...(please ignore the location in the Bahamas, that was before this passage....and ignore the location near 39*N a few hundred miles off Portugal, as this was an erroneous latitude/typo...)





As you can see, I was planning on heading east between 34*N and 35*N, and then turn for the Azores as I could follow along the Azores High (hoping to skirt the northern edge of it, not sail thru it), probably turning ENE or NE, between 50*W and 45*W....
BUT...

But, as you can see, I looked at the wefax and saw the Low that was coming off the coast flying along a front, was NOT tracking NE'erly very fast....(and speaking to Herb on the HF radio that evening, confirmed what I saw on the WeFax), so I headed SE for a day, and then due east along 33*N....and it was during this next night that the Gale kicked me good (35- 40kts, gusts to 50...and seas 16'+...for 24 hours....but subsided quickly...)
Other boats JUST a couple hundred miles to my North and NE weren't so lucky....they suffered 48hrs of winds 40-50kts...and a couple turned for Bermuda after suffering damage...
A day or so later, I was able to head NE'erly to about 35* 50'N x 61*W, and then continue my easting from there, until 49*W....where I saw good wind north of me, so headed north and then had good wind for a rhumbline course the rest of the way to Horta....

This was without stressing things too much (especially myself and my two other crew on-board), keeping an eye on weather, etc...keeping a reef in the mainsail for more days than you'd think...and I still averaged 6.6kts over the approx. 3100+ miles sailed....
No injuries, no major issues on-board (save a loose autopilot drive bracket, which we repaired in a few hours, at sea), and excellent hot meals every day...with great food, great music, great comradely, etc....

So much for the "Great Circle" Fantasy huh???

Oh, and please take note that is was a late-June / mid-July crossing...(departed S. Florida June 26th!!)...
Those leaving earlier in the season should take even more heed to staying south (and east) of the nasty continental weather (the Lows and Fronts)....and as long as you watch for "tropical development" once a day, there is no real risk of Hurricanes....




Finally, please know that I'm not being critical of decisions made by those who may have paid the high price of their lives....
And, my prayers are still with their families....
(I just thought some here may wish to see another passage track...)


Fair winds...

John
s/v Annie Laurie
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Old 23-05-2014, 18:30   #281
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

Curmudgeon,
Please know that I'm not going to be critical of decisions made by those who may have paid the high price of their lives....
And, my prayers are still with their families....



And, while when a keel falls off (or more probable in this case, the keel was torn-off by the force of the sea), the route is not of too much importance to the vessel.....
In my opinion, the primary reasons the route is important is four-fold...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
If the keel falls off, it doesn't matter which route you take. They must have been terrified when it happened.
1) If the vessel had not been in as harsh sea / wind conditions (further south and east), the keel may not have been torn-off...
2) If the vessel had in fact been farther east and/or farther south, but unfortunately still suffered the loss of the keel, the weather would have been more fair and probably easier to survive in....entry into a liferaft is easier in calmer weather, and if not able to enter the liferaft, survival time in warmer water is longer...
3) And, if farther east....they'd been closer to the Azores....so if they did lose the keel and abandoned ship, the search could be based out of the Azores (where the US has a full-service Air Force base, as well as Oceanic Air-traffic control facilities...), and nearer to the shipping routes between the US and the Med....


4) I suppose the list could go on....
But, in MY opinion, the main reason the discussion of the route is somewhat important here, is that this may help others that are planning an Atlantic crossing to avoid bad weather, and may allow them to have a more pleasant and safer passage...




Curmudgeon, I hope this answers your question...

Again, please know that I'm not being critical of decisions made by those who may have paid the high price of their lives....
And, my prayers are still with their families....


Fair winds...

John
s/v Annie Laurie
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Old 23-05-2014, 18:42   #282
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalier View Post
Mrs Cavalier always claims that the DM breaks stories hours before the BBC.. True in some cases, however, hr Beeb tend to wait to ensure that claims or information is factual before they publish. There's a chance that DM are simply attempting to cause a public uproar over the plan to stop searching at 12am ET... who knows?

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There is a Daily Mirror blog

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cheeki-rafiki-live-updates-after-3598058


front page tomorrow "Warship finds missing wreck...and both the lifeboats are gone"...hmmm...think I'll wait to hear it from the BBC
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Old 23-05-2014, 19:04   #283
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pirate Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

USCG confirm liferaft still on board Cheeki Rafiki.. surface swimmer with camera confirms liferaft still in storage space in cockpit..
Condolences to family and friends..
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Old 23-05-2014, 19:08   #284
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

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USCG confirm liferaft still on board Cheeki Rafiki.. surface swimmer with camera confirms liferaft still in storage space in cockpit..
Condolences to family and friends..
Damn! That such sad news! Especially since the Tomnod site is up and running for some crowd source searching:
Tomnod
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Old 23-05-2014, 19:17   #285
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

What do people make of this part of the report from the swimmer:

They found the cabin of the yacht was flooded and the windows shattered. The yacht's keel was also broken, causing a breach in the hull, a spokesman added.

What would cause shattered ports in a capsize? Or was the capsize caused by a wave that broke the ports. Perhaps the keel failed after the boat rolled? Or were the ports broken by the crew to escape?

And if the keel bolts failed, would there be a hull breach? Are they maybe just referring to the keel bolt holes or did the fiberglass fail?
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