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Old 20-05-2014, 10:03   #166
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2014-05-20/us-coastguard-to-resume-search-within-the-hour/

2:30pm, Tue 20 May 2014US Coastguard to resume search for missing sailors
US Coastguard to resume search within the hour

Last updated Tue 20 May 2014 The US Coastguard have confirmed they will be resuming the search for four missing sailors from the UK.
The US Coastguard told the family of Somerset sailor Steve Warren that they will be liaising with Canadian and British authorities and will be resuming the search from the air within the next hour.
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Old 20-05-2014, 10:07   #167
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

Honestly, how many boats without a keel that fit the Rafiki's description are floating around near the yacht's last location?

And if the boat had survival suits, hydrostatic release deck mounted liferaft or other equipment not required or normal for a 40ft racing boat, don't you think the owners would have publicized that in their efforts to get the search resumed?

The CG had to bow to popular pressure to resume the search but it would be horrible if someone was hurt or killed in this gesture. This isn't really a "search", the drift of any life raft can be calculated with good accuracy from the known location of the overturned hull. That's why the CG said they had "saturated" the area. And this experienced crew would have tried their best to keep the life raft close to the wreck. And they had least two PLB's, flares, and reportedly a handheld VHF radio. If they weren't able to deploy the life raft - which seems likely in a sudden capsize caused by keel loss and sloshing water from the leak - they died quickly in the cold water of that latitude.

Our anger should be directed at whatever allowed the keel to fail in open water and kill four men. They did not radio that they had hit anything. Either the crew failed to repair an earlier collision (seems most unlikely given their experience and large budget) or the boat's manufacture was defective.
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Old 20-05-2014, 10:11   #168
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

sorry - I posted resumption late but had problems logging in before. It strikes me that the actual bottom line is that they searched for 2 days, then stopped for 2 days and then resumed.

Whatever the outcome, it does seem ridiculous to have 'lost' more than 48 potentially crucial hours.

Fingers crossed xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Old 20-05-2014, 10:14   #169
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

Looks like it's not just the Coast Guard doing the search. Flotilla of 40 boats heading for the area

Search for 4 missing British sailors in Atlantic resumed by US coastguard after petition | Mail Online
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Old 20-05-2014, 10:23   #170
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pirate Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Erm, well the RAF scrapped all the Nimrods


BBC News - Nimrod aircraft scrapped at Stockport BAE factory

We do have some sentinels, but we sent one to Nigeria to look for some kids, and the others well they are tracking Russian subs on their way to the US Eastern seaboard.
I believe there was an understanding the US were taking over the cover.. however.. as we know.. yesterdays agreements are not necessarily todays policies..
Salty.. if the US is having difficulty 1000 miles from home.. the UK's 2000miles.. you saying we are better..?
I know we won a war 12000 miles from home but that was 34yrs ago.. when we still had assets
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Old 20-05-2014, 10:30   #171
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

The US Coastguard searched extensively an area of 4,000 square miles, 1000 miles away from the US. I'm not sure how that counts as having difficulties. The fundamental problem was that there was no-one there to be found, certainly not in a liferaft.

I believe that the Coastguard has assumed that if they were in a liferaft, they would have been spotted (a 12ft diameter orange/red disk stands out), and if they are not in a liferaft, they can't have survived more than 20 hours in the water.

That leaves two slim chances - the liferaft drifted out of the search area, or they are in the upturned hull. Why would they not swim out when the Maersk ship was alongside?
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Old 20-05-2014, 10:34   #172
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

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Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Erm, well the RAF scrapped all the Nimrods


BBC News - Nimrod aircraft scrapped at Stockport BAE factory

We do have some sentinels, but we sent one to Nigeria to look for some kids, and the others well they are tracking Russian subs on their way to the US Eastern seaboard.
Well, thats both of them.......
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Old 20-05-2014, 10:34   #173
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pirate Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

Ooooohhh.... Touchy..
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Old 20-05-2014, 10:36   #174
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pirate Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

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Well, thats both of them.......
Actually there's none in Nigeria... it broke down enroute...
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Old 20-05-2014, 11:14   #175
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

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Originally Posted by MarkSF View Post
The US Coastguard searched extensively an area of 4,000 square miles, 1000 miles away from the US. I'm not sure how that counts as having difficulties. The fundamental problem was that there was no-one there to be found, certainly not in a liferaft.

I believe that the Coastguard has assumed that if they were in a liferaft, they would have been spotted (a 12ft diameter orange/red disk stands out), and if they are not in a liferaft, they can't have survived more than 20 hours in the water.

That leaves two slim chances - the liferaft drifted out of the search area, or they are in the upturned hull. Why would they not swim out when the Maersk ship was alongside?
Mark:

You could be right about all that. But, as good as the SAR crews are. After traveling 1000 miles in a noisy vibrating airframe I think would fatigue anyone. Hell a few hours running my old diesel was tiring enough for me. Then after they arrive in the search area they are staring at miles and miles of empty ocean for who knows how long. As trained as they are they could still miss something. I would not blame them if they did. IMO what they do is hard work not physically but mentally but, still tiring. I still appreciate their work and effort.

We do know at least two PIRBs were activated so at least two of the crew are out there. In what or what condition is unknown. Hopefully between the new air search and flotilla there will be some good news. At a minimum I hope one of the boats comes across the "overturned hull" and is able to answer some questions about it. Including was anyone inside the hull and was the liferaft still in the boat.
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Old 20-05-2014, 11:26   #176
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Actually there's none in Nigeria... it broke down enroute...
Probably ex Austin Morris Birmingham repair crew
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Old 20-05-2014, 11:45   #177
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

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Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
Honestly, how many boats without a keel that fit the Rafiki's description are floating around near the yacht's last location?

And if the boat had survival suits, hydrostatic release deck mounted liferaft or other equipment not required or normal for a 40ft racing boat, don't you think the owners would have publicized that in their efforts to get the search resumed?

The CG had to bow to popular pressure to resume the search but it would be horrible if someone was hurt or killed in this gesture. This isn't really a "search", the drift of any life raft can be calculated with good accuracy from the known location of the overturned hull. That's why the CG said they had "saturated" the area. And this experienced crew would have tried their best to keep the life raft close to the wreck. And they had least two PLB's, flares, and reportedly a handheld VHF radio. If they weren't able to deploy the life raft - which seems likely in a sudden capsize caused by keel loss and sloshing water from the leak - they died quickly in the cold water of that latitude.

Our anger should be directed at whatever allowed the keel to fail in open water and kill four men. They did not radio that they had hit anything. Either the crew failed to repair an earlier collision (seems most unlikely given their experience and large budget) or the boat's manufacture was defective.
Carl, I completely agree...I'm a Marine Engineer and a Yachtsman sounds to me like the keel bolts, or the hull they were attached to, failed (think that can safely be assumed!) if they were taking in water the day before it was possibly through a broken keel bolt or bolts. This would have put extra strain on the others which broke and the keel came off....

Without getting technical metal fatigue is caused after repeated stress / strain...the higher the load and frequency, the less the "fatigue life". Metal fatigue is almost impossible to detect.

From what I have read the boat had a very tough and active life...i.e.raced hard and regularly?

Is any boat, primarily designed for cruising, capable of withstanding such a "beating"?

I'd be curious to know how often (if at all) keel bolts are routinely changed? Getting paranoid about mine now!! ;(


Regards

Tony
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Old 20-05-2014, 12:28   #178
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

Tony, I would argue that she was designed for racing, and thus carried a high aspect ratio keel, rudder, and rig. If she had been designed for cruising the keel of the chord would be longer and and therefor have a stronger joint (all other things being equal) a la the Bene Oceanis series.

As you say she was obviously raced successfully and therefor hard, and thus there must be some pretty intense pressure over time on that relatively short chord where the keel attaches yet any metal fatigue/ hairline fractures would likely not be easily noticeable. The shorter that chord and the deeper that keel the greater the force on that joint.
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Old 20-05-2014, 12:51   #179
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

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Originally Posted by Brob2 View Post
Tony, I would argue that she was designed for racing, and thus carried a high aspect ratio keel, rudder, and rig. If she had been designed for cruising the keel of the chord would be longer and and therefor have a stronger joint (all other things being equal) a la the Bene Oceanis series.

As you say she was obviously raced successfully and therefor hard, and thus there must be some pretty intense pressure over time on that relatively short chord where the keel attaches yet any metal fatigue/ hairline fractures would likely not be easily noticeable. The shorter that chord and the deeper that keel the greater the force on that joint.
Many thanks Brob - I work with ships (not yachts) but can see where you are coming from and agree!

It is a narrow keel and (please see link)

FIRST 40.7 (BENETEAU) sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

I believe, the keel has a bulb for a better righting moment...but also a greater strain on the keel bolts?
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Old 20-05-2014, 13:18   #180
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Re: UK yacht Cheeki Rafiki missing in mid-Atlantic

With over 200,000 calls for the search to be resumed that must count as the biggest SOS in the US Coastguard's history. I imagine that this illustrious service would have forever sailed just that little bit lower in the water if they had ignored such a call. Irrespective of whether or not the initial decision to abandon the search was justified on various criteria, the real question had to be - "has everything possible been done to find these men?"
Lets hope for a successful mission.
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