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Old 19-08-2013, 16:33   #106
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Re: Twenty Knots

I'm sorry to say that even if the next AC race was in mono's, you will not see headsail switches or spinnakers. Those are in the dustbin of top-tier racing already. Maybe headsail changes from jibs to larger flat sails, but they will be uneventful and uninteresting. Most likely they will be roller-furled like on current high-end racing boats.

Tacking duels will only be if they go back to 20 mile long courses 10 miles offshore. If they do, the sport is dead.

And it is likely that a tacking duel will never break out because the mono's that will be raced will be similar to the current catamarans where small crew errors compound instantly into distance.

If this distance is gained on a 20 mile course, there will be no further competition. If it happens on a multiple short leg course, then there can be excitement.

Sorry, the days that everyone pines for are long gone in this race.

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Old 19-08-2013, 16:33   #107
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Re: Twenty Knots

Why don't the organizers put them in Westsail 32's. That would be cheap and safe and boring as hell for the general public to watch....just as the monohulls were.

I hope they have the same boats with the next America's Cup, but perhaps a little more resistant to pitchpoling
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Old 19-08-2013, 16:36   #108
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Re: Twenty Knots

Thinking about the Formula One analogy, if they set the rules for F-1 so that only 4 marques could afford to build racecars, and then they were so unreliable that many "races" consisted of one car doing one lap, how long would sponsors keep up the funding?

While the AC72's are technically interesting, the races are, at least so far, not so.

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Old 19-08-2013, 16:43   #109
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Re: Twenty Knots

The F1 has had much more time to stabilize and develop the cash flow and support infrastructure systems. Like I keep saying, these boats are a bit too big and untested at this time. Also, they came about quickly and do not have any supporting infrastructure to lower costs. The barrier to entry in this completely new arena was high for sure.

If they are still around for the next cup, it will be a completely different environment.

The original AC races only had two boats in competition. Multi-country boats did not come about until decades into the race. Even then, the costs were prohibited and complained about by most countries. The J-boats were dropped specifically because of cost.

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Old 19-08-2013, 16:47   #110
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pirate Re: Twenty Knots

Funny thing is an American skipper of one of these cats said it was boring as hell... all he did was sit in the middle pushing buttons...
This was in Cascais a couple of years back... boring as hell to watch in real life as well... sat on the hook all day waiting for a bit of excitement... NADA...
Then I watched the TV edits... awesome... including the now famous US1 pitchpole....
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Old 19-08-2013, 16:51   #111
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Re: Twenty Knots

These boats did not physically exist a couple of years ago.

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Old 19-08-2013, 17:02   #112
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Re: Twenty Knots

I think the moral of this fiasco (I use the word with precision - the dictionary definition is "international sporting event with only 4 teams competing") is that the boats need to be less expensive and dangerous.
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Old 19-08-2013, 17:04   #113
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Re: Twenty Knots

How about less expensive and less dangerous?

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Old 19-08-2013, 17:05   #114
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pirate Re: Twenty Knots

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
These boats did not physically exist a couple of years ago.

Mark
OK... lets call those the MK1... and these today are the MK2...
If I recall there were 2 USA, 1 Jordan, 1 Spain, 1 Japan and a couple of others that don't spring to mind right now...
But.. they look pretty much the same... these were the 45ftrs
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Old 19-08-2013, 17:06   #115
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Re: Twenty Knots

I removed the errant comma.
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Old 19-08-2013, 17:09   #116
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Re: Twenty Knots

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
But.. they look pretty much the same...
Which sums up the entire problem expressed in this thread...

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Old 19-08-2013, 17:20   #117
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Re: Twenty Knots

I look at it this way. Is Formula 1 boring to watch? I don't think it is. But they managed to make it quite safe (not totally, but quite).

Remember the year when Senna and Ratzenberger died? There had been danger signs before, but the speeds had just got out of hand. Since then there have been numerous safety improvements, and no driver has died since 1994 (touch wood)

That's where we are right now in this competition, it has got out of hand. It is too dangerous, and the boats and rules need a comprehensive review to make sure that the next AC is far more successful - it could be both safer, and more exciting.
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Old 19-08-2013, 17:24   #118
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pirate Re: Twenty Knots

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Which sums up the entire problem expressed in this thread...

Mark
Wot... same boats but 75ft instead of 45ft.... logic states they'll go a bit faster.... if I recall from a conversation in Cascais... they had to stay within the same parameters... the smaller boats were for the heats only.
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Old 19-08-2013, 17:41   #119
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Re: Twenty Knots

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
I don't agree that the AC72 are boring, but I do agree that the AC45's were more exciting. But that was match racing, which I always find more exciting. The America's Cup has never been match racing.
I think you've confused match racing with fleet racing. The AC World Series included both. The Americas Cup has been a match race ever since the NYYC deed of gift was established.
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Old 19-08-2013, 17:43   #120
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Re: Twenty Knots

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BTW, for those complaining that these aren't sailboats, or they use different rules and courses, or they aren't what you consider "proper", then don't pay any attention to it.

I don't watch F1, but I also do not go on car forums and complain that they aren't "real" cars.

Some people here seem to take personal offense from the simple existence of these boats and need to vent that offense. Doesn't make any sense to me.

And before anyone puts up the argument that these boats have usurped the "America's Cup", please describe what you think the proper "America's Cup" boat is.

Schooners?

Mark
why are you so keen on relating AC boats to F1 racing? there are all kinds of auto racing. SCCA, rally cars, all sorts of sport car racing. I am sure any of the drivers in those classes would not want to see F1 or nascar in their classes. they also watch with interest the F1 cars and cart cars. Sailors race all sorts of boats, Finns, Soling's, 420's etc. they don't want to move up to fast catamarans. what's the point? they are all relative in their boat speed. boat speed is not the only thing people like to race for. soooo, you like to watch speeding cats, so what?? nothing wrong with that. quit talking trash to us.
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